Some "arm levelling" help please.....

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by frimleygreener, May 27, 2017.

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  1. frimleygreener

    frimleygreener "It 'a'int why...it just is" Thread Starter

    Location:
    united kingdom
    My AR turntable comes with an arm that can be raised or lowered via two tiny allen keys on the arm pivot:The manual states that the "arm should be parallel with the playing surface when lowered". I slackened of the screws,and placed a section of playing cards on the record surface,and allowed the arm to rest on the cards, tightened the screws,took the cards away,and thought "job done",as the arm certainly looked parallel:problem is,now the cueing lever will not raise the arm when the playing side is finished,or allow cuing of a newly placed disc. Have I overlooked something very basic,or perhaps misinterpreted the "parallel" concept?
    Any help appreciated!
     
  2. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    I used to use an old LP of average thickness and a card with parallel lines on, for setting the arm - be careful with the bearings. Most of the arms I set, had a tiny grub screw for setting the height of the cueing device.

    Good luck!
     
    frimleygreener likes this.
  3. frimleygreener

    frimleygreener "It 'a'int why...it just is" Thread Starter

    Location:
    united kingdom
    I think my "problem" is that the theory works if every mounted cartridge was of uniform dimensions: that,of course,is not the case! I use a Goldring G1042: much different in shape to the Sumiko I previously used when I last performed so called "critical" adjustments...The cuing lever worked with the Sumiko...not with the Goldring..very confused!
     
  4. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    Are you sure that there isn't a grub screw on the LHS of the cueing device? The arm height usually is adjusted independently of the cueing device, and that needs adjusting after the arm is parallel. So for a different height of cartridge, the cue will nearly always need a tweak.
     
    The FRiNgE likes this.
  5. frimleygreener

    frimleygreener "It 'a'int why...it just is" Thread Starter

    Location:
    united kingdom
    I will take a look...I have only had the table for about 35 years,so easily overlooked! Thanks:)
     
    timind and Randoms like this.
  6. this makes sense; the cueing lever should have its own adjustment
     
    Randoms likes this.
  7. frimleygreener

    frimleygreener "It 'a'int why...it just is" Thread Starter

    Location:
    united kingdom
    Hmmm.. no sign of a "side screw"....There is a small cross head screw mounted on top of the piston barrel:If I use the cuing lever,the piston moves,but not enough to lift the arm clear of the record: However, If I physically "lift" the piston to its maximum extension the clearance is sufficient....I suppose it would not do any harm to experiment with that top screw! Thanks again:)
     
    H8SLKC and Randoms like this.
  8. I think i recall having to physically lift the piston on my Rega some yrs ago when i had a similar problem. After lifting it i tightened the grub screw and all was, and still is, well. Good luck
     
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  9. Thorensman

    Thorensman Forum Resident

    The old Lenco arm had similiar issues.
    The answer is to add a distance piece to the headshell.
    Being as all is well with the Sumiko
    The distance piece should be such. Thst it makes the Gokdring the same.
    However if the Goldring by the sound of it is taller than the Sumiko
    And when raising rear of arm it is now out of the range of the cuing device
    Then unless the cuing device can be adjusted to compensate then the whole arm would in theory have to be raised possibly by placing a spacer under arm base.
     
  10. H8SLKC

    H8SLKC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Your primary problem here is that YOU NEED BETTER SPEAKERS, as they are the most important link in the audio chain.

    :)

    JK. Good luck with the AR. Cool machines.


     
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  11. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    Hi, @H8SLKC we meet again, and I'll still play, even if you are totally wrong about speakers!! :D

    Through a highly revealing pair of £300 Linn Kan speakers, you can actually hear an improvement by removing the cueing device from an Ittok arm, and also by removing the armrest from the armboard. This is partly how the Ekos arm evolved with damping up and down, showing the importance of a revealing source! :D

    Sorry, wrong thread, and in joke! @frimleygreener in regard to the cueing device not clearing the record, is the cueing device arm rest still parallel across its whole range, or could it have been pushed slightly down? I have seen this before, and a slight tweak to re-level gave increased clearance.

    Another occasional problem, is when the damping fluid had leaked from the piston. Without knowing which arm, it is difficult to suggest any other solutions.

    Good luck.
     
    H8SLKC likes this.
  12. frimleygreener

    frimleygreener "It 'a'int why...it just is" Thread Starter

    Location:
    united kingdom
    The plot thickens. Dear Lord I love this hobby! Seems that in trying to get the arm absolutely parallel to the record playing surface, I overlooked one very important consideration. I run a Goldring G1042 mm, known it seems, for having a very particular "sweet spot" with regard to VTA: in order to get the vta set to optimum, Goldring state "the underside of the cartridge must be parallel to the record playing surface when the arm is lowered and the stylus makes contact with the record". This of course makes a nonsense of my valiant attempts to set a perfectly balanced arm:).
    Anyone got any "tips" as to how one can view and determine that the parameters set by Goldring can be achieved, given that the clearance between bottom of cartridge and record is very small indeed,and makes viewing pretty difficult?
     
  13. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    Try a piece of card, perfectly rectangular and drawer parallel lines on it. Rest the cartridge on an average thickness record, and place the parallel lines behind cartridge and look across it. Hopefully that will give you a good visual guide.

    I used a device like this to help get the armtube parallel; worked really well until you came across a tapered armtube!
     
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  14. Thorensman

    Thorensman Forum Resident

    I put a ruler at two points on the edge
    Of the headshell.
    Its worth rsising the rear of arm quite s bit. Sometimes one does not go far enough. Go too high! Listen.
    Go low listen? Go back too high,
    And lower,in steps till the soundstage snaps
    Into focus .
    Every arm has its quirks. The SME 3009 has a problem with lack of clearance between the cueing device and underside of tonearm which with record warps will lift arm out of the groove resulting in mistracking!
    Lower the rear of arm and clearance returns,
    In the manual it tells you thst you have raised rear of arm too much .
    So there !
    Is there nothing on the manual to explain this?
     
  15. frimleygreener

    frimleygreener "It 'a'int why...it just is" Thread Starter

    Location:
    united kingdom
    No...AR just state "arm should be parallel to record surface when viewed from the side". Goldring are specific that the base of the cartridge must be parallel to the record to ensure correct vta. I guess the Goldring instruction makes more sense if indeed vta is as critical to the cartridge optimum performance as they(and other forums suggest).
    ".
     
  16. KT88

    KT88 Senior Member

    The underside of the cartridge should be parallel to the surface of the headshell, which should be parallel to the arm tube. Basically, whichever one of those is easiest to gauge, use that. the armtube is the longest, so it should be the best indicator. The trouble with the cueing device is that when you raise the arm post only, the cueing device doesn't raise with it, so it is then too low to lift the arm. There will be some way to raise that as well. What arm is on the AR? If it's a Grace 707, then there is a screw to the right of the cueing cylinder, but you can only raise it so much. be super careful as the yoke that the screw squeezes is plastic and they break easily, so just use enough tightening of the screw to hold it in place, do not try to "get it tight".
    -Bill
     
  17. frimleygreener

    frimleygreener "It 'a'int why...it just is" Thread Starter

    Location:
    united kingdom
    I t is a Jelco sourced arm as fitted to the AR Legend(billed as "The Turntable" across the pond).
     
  18. KT88

    KT88 Senior Member

    Sorry, I'm going to be of no help without pictures, I'm afraid. The cueing device on most arms would raise along with the arm pillar it it were firmly attached to the pillar. Maybe there is a way to raise the platform that the cuing device is held by and fix it in place with a set screw? If not, and they are independent, then it sounds as if you may have to lower the arm pillar again to get you an operational range with the cueing device, then shim the whole arm base up a bit. Once it is up and where it is within working range and close to level, you can use the arm pillar again to fine tune the arm/cartridge level to the playing surface of a typical record thickness.
    -Bill
     
  19. frimleygreener

    frimleygreener "It 'a'int why...it just is" Thread Starter

    Location:
    united kingdom
    I will post some "close ups" in the morning. Cannot do the image thing from work...it's a hard life:)
     
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  20. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    I thought most of the Jelcos, had either a 1 or 1.5mm hex grub screw on the RHS of the clamp. Not set one up for around 22 years, so a picture would be good!
     
  21. The FRiNgE

    The FRiNgE Forum Resident

    Yes, please post a photo and please tell us which model AR you have. I may be able to help you.
     
  22. frimleygreener

    frimleygreener "It 'a'int why...it just is" Thread Starter

    Location:
    united kingdom
  23. KT88

    KT88 Senior Member

  24. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    Meant to say, 1.33 or 1.5mm, but that's the sizes I've got stuck in my fading memory, for locking the arm cable in a Linn arm pillar! Message to self, don't rely on memory.
     
  25. Drewan77

    Drewan77 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK/USA
    If all else fails, you could try gluing a thin pad of something on top of the cueing mechanism using a contact adhesive like Evo-Stik (removable with methylated or surgical spirit)
     
    qwerty likes this.
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