Some commentary on vinyl quality...

The following is some commentary on vinyl record production that I thought members would find interesting. It should be noted while this is from Classic Records, other quality audiophile labels provide very high quality vinyl as well. I just found it very educational and it gets to some of the challenges in maintaining a high quality level.

 

Thanks for posting that, Lee. Interesting info, especially about the lacquer material issues. I didn't know that noise issues started that far back in the process. It's nice to at least have a better idea of what Classic and I'd assume most other Vinyl producers are up against.

 

Sob story.

 

That's very interesting stuff. Where did you find this article?

Bill

 

Thank you for the informative post

 

Ditto...

 

Ditto.

So that's why four out of the five expensive audiophile LP's I recently bought sounded like outtakes from a cereal advert (snap, crackle, pop) and looked like they were made by Stevie Wonder ?

 

Classic records is ca-ca

 

It's possible (likely even) that this sob story is a true one unfortunately.

I can't comment on Classic Records per se (I only buy reissues if I see the name "Steve Hoffman" on it somewhere) but I have bought my share of noisy new vinyl recently. Particularly problematic titles I have run into recently include Verve/Forecast (Elvis Costello and Allent Toussaint's The River In Reverse), Anti/Epitaph (Daniel Lanois' Belladonna, and Sundazed (Wilco's Yankee Hotel Foxtrot ).

The strange thing (to me) is how these *brand new* records are all significantly noisier than thousands of NM or VG+ records I own that were pressed in the "LP era" (the '50s thru the '80s). And all I can figure is that QC takes a hit when you have limited suppliers.

In other words, I don't think it's the fault of Classic Records if they have had issues in the past. This can't be an easy era to press LPs in when your options are very limited. At least it sounds like they're working on them. That's a good thing.

 

Horror stories for me from Get Back/Abraxas who put out some titles - had a copy of Gong's Angel's Egg album which has so much crackle at the start and is on 180gram vinyl. A real duffer. Didn't cost me a fortune, but if I'd paid the kind of money Classic Records products go for as new over here, then I'd be livid.

Recent Dylan boxsets from Classic tend to go for top dollar in the UK - the Scorcese soundtrack boxset is about £75, the 1964 and 1966 gigs go for around £85 each - or $150/$170 depending on your take. Definately NOT a cheap mistake. For that money, I want top quality vinyl and quality control of the highest standards on the physical product as well as the sounds on the LP.

 

I don't want to hijack this thread and forgive me if this is too far off but I have a related question. Does every vinyl pressing have some amount of surface noise? My experience says yes, but maybe I'm unlucky or just haven't bought enough quality disks. Is there a such thing as a totally noise free pressing?

Also, do disks pressed on colored vinyl tend to be noisier?

 

Recent purchases of mine that sounded really quiet (if not necessarily "totally noise free")

Wilco's Sky Blue Sky (WEA)
Wilco's A Ghost is Born (Rhino)
The Decemberists' Her Majesty (Jealous Butcher/Kill Rock Stars)
The Decemberists' Picaresque (Jealous Butcher/Kill Rock Stars)
The Flaming Lips' At War With the Mystics (WEA)
Green Day's American Idiot (Stan Ricker's US pressing on Adeline)

By and large, I'm satisfied with the quality of newly-purchased vinyl. I wish it was perfect and it wasn't so expensive, but I'm happy that it's still an option at all (seems like not that long ago that it was going away in a hurry).

 

I haven't gotten a noisy new record yet. If there is noise there, then it isn't audible in any real way to me. I don't doubt that these issues are real, but I have been lucky enough not to get bitten yet.

 

Quiet:
AJA
BLUE

Noisy:
some of the Bob Dylans on Sundazed (but Sundazed let me return them, and said they were going to have them re-pressed, about a year ago)

 

Then they should find out who supplies and presses for Pure Pleasure and Speakers Corner because I've had no issues with them. My problem with Classic (and APO to a much lesser extent) is that their records come out of the sleeve new looking like a used record. They have been plagued with pressing defects or scratches that have occured post pressing. I think most of the blame is with RTI.

 

Classic Records e-mailed this to subscribers to their newsletter.

 

Yes, and even though there can be sonic problems with Simply Vinyl titles they seem to have figured it out as well. I just have a couple but they are clean as a proverbial whistle. I suspect the 200 gram releases create trouble as well since my 180 gram Classics seem fine.

In any event, it seems that a lot goes into a quality release and industry change seems constant in record production.

 

Recently (1 month ago), I had a conversation with one of the owners of one of the last bastions of audiophile LPs in Australia. During the course of the conversation he mentioned that 4-5 in 10 of Classic Records issues come back to him for exchanges. Noise, warps, scratches, warps, inclusions in the vinyl, warps - he keeps seeing the same things over and over again. Did I mention there were many warped 200g pressings?

On the other hand, he's had about 10 Simply Vinyl issues come back in the few years he's been selling them.

Says it all, doesn't it? It would be funny if not for the (ridiculously) exorbitant prices they are charging.

 

From recent new production vinyl purchases:

Quiet

Steely Dan - Aja (DEAD quiet)
Yes - Fragile (again dead quiet)
Wilco - Sky Blue Sky
Ryan Adams - Cold Roses, Gold (recent Lost Highway reissues, own the rest but haven't listened to them yet)
Trey Anastasio - The Horseshoe Curve
Talking Heads - Remain In Light (dead quiet)

Bad!!

Scott Walker - The Drift (unacceptably noisy, on an album that just begs for a black background)
Widespread Panic - Earth To America (has a warp in it the width of my thumb, so bad the tonearm does a little jump when it passes over it)

OK

Ryan Adams - Easy Tiger (orange translucent vinyl, had a few pops in it at first but they actually went away after several spins. sounds good now.)

 

Aaron, Does he see this on the 180 gram LPs as well?

 

Funny, I think I remember Steve saying the biggest offender regarding surface noise is how long after a lacquer is cut til plating, or the sooner the lacquer is plated the better.

And I have been buying, with much regret, Classics from the git go.
Quality really hasn't changed over the years, it is always hit or miss for me.

 

Thats one of the reasons, and a big one. However, the quality of the lacquer is really the most important. If you cut your master into an uneven lacquer or one with bumps, all of the subsequent copies will be uneven and have bumps as well.

 

Thanks for posting this! This explains why today's vinyl records pale in comparison to my 1980's vintage Japanese/MFSL pressings. Not only are the vinyl formulas compromised, but most of the lacquers as well. I'm glad there are still a few people trying to make a quality product, but I'm not planning to buy and new vinyl unless I absolutely have to.

Derek

 

Rubbish, Lots of stuff can go wrong and I had my share of noisey mfsl/jvc vinyl. Some was quiet, some not and I bought it new. Returned my first PF DSOTM MFSL because it was noisey, so was the replacement, so was S&G BOTW, in fact it sucked.
My thoughts, do it in house so you can control as much of the process as possible.

DCC and AP is some of the most quiet vinyl I have owned.