some wise words from Tom Petty

Don't think so. From what I've read in sound magazines like Mix, the rental price of an arena level sound system hasn't even gone up with inflation. As a result, systems have shrunk in size so it requires far fewer speaker cabinets, taking up much less space in a truck, taking fewer people to set up, etc. And the way all these systems are packaged together as "line arrays", it doesn't make much sense to leave part of it at home. They might not carry twice as much equipment as necessary (like U2 did on the 360 Tour) but they'll have a perfectly fine sound system to fill an arena. It doesn't make economic sense to under-size a system, as it will just wind up over-driven and blow speakers.

Damn you Oatsdad, you just made me admire Kid Rock!

 

All of that is true, but the answer to Krugman's question if far more simple. The reason resell tickets can double in price is simple supply and demand. An orchestra pit ticket might only seem worth $200 when there are 1000 of them available. But once there's only 20 left, it's easy to get much much more for them.

 

Sound systems are also smaller simply due to improved technology. I'm amazed at how much better sounding and lighter music equipment is now than it was 20 years ago.

 

Right, but the innovation has been to get more decibels per cubit foot. From what I've been told, the average theater speaker system has to fit on the "dance floor" or raised portion of a trailer - back when I was doing sound, we could barely fit a pair of "W" bins up there.

 

His expenses aren't any more than a Foo Fighters or Green Day tour at half the ticket price.

Then how can Garth Brooks set a ticket price of $65 if he has no control over it? You know a promoter could easily charge twice that and sell out. I don't understand the country music industry, but those artists seem to have plenty of control over their ticket prices. And Brooks' stage show will likely not be...minimal. (Pearl Jam is another band that seems to exude control over their ticket prices, even if said prices seem to have increased over the last few years)

 

Petty (nothing against his music) has been a member of Ye Olde Farts Club since he was in this mid-thirties. My rejoinder would be that a generation that could be so dimwitted to think music could end wars, create a revolution, and bring world peace (as the musicians themselves get draft deferrals and fly in private jets) would make a lot in my generation both wince and laugh them out of the room.

 

I think his opinions on music have remained remarkably consistent whether that qualifies him as being set in his ways or not I'm not entirely sure. Here he is in 1979 talking about how record companies aren't discriminating against who they sign to contracts:

 

I remember him addressing this on the radio around ten years ago. He was talking about his song "When A Kid Goes Bad" which I've always thought dealt with the Columbine massacre. He said that the word "peace" shouldn't be looked upon as a weak word or a sappy word but a powerful one that people should really be getting behind. He elaborated on it more than that and I wished I had saved the interview because I felt he made some really good points.

 

Well, I have no quarrel with that, but his dismissal of a generation simply because a portion of the (adolescent, usually female) demographic buys bubblegum records promoted on a TV show (this never happened in the 60's or 70's??) comes across as smug. This has always been the way he seems to respond to music (and generations) newer than 1976; dismissive, somewhat insulting, and uninsightful.

I'm not saying he's a bad guy or anything, just that he's always seemed a little uptight. As fer his politics and personal beliefs on other things, I really have no idea. He's never really come across as much of a thinker...

 

So does anybody have a nickname for incredibly condescending 20-somethings ?

 

If I run into any 20-somethings, I will ask them.

 

ah, you're a teenager.

 

When Tom puts out an album anywhere near as good as his first 7 studio albums or does a deluxe Pack Up The Plantation live set, I'll listen to what he has to say about the current music scene or anything else.

Till then....

 

Petty's roots are firmly located in the swampy dives of the south. His sense probably matches the values of most popular groups that made it big in either USA or UK going all the way back to the 1950's. These artists represent the breadbasket of what historically has made rock & roll the criterion of popular music for the ages: Chuck Berry, Elvis, Little Richard, Buddy Holly, Beatles, Stones, Who, Led Zep, Bob Dylan, Neil Young, Pearl Jam, Tom Petty, Nirvana, the list goes on..

The industry has adopted the formula that reality TV can best decide who has "earned" the right to be a star. An entire generation of fans now look to the big TV networks to tell them what music to like and hopefully spend money on.

Most of the artists that win the big game shows are good at their craft. They usually get it right within the context of the show. BUT --- this idea that these people can somehow stack up against the greatest artists of all time marginalizes what it means to be a pop music star.

Karaoke artists can be very good singers, but they rarely have the depth to compose, arrange and produce their own compositions. This leave the duty to the hands of the industry assigned "professionals". Historically, this has often resulted in a watered down product that eventually begs for profound change. This has been that point in history when artists like Elvis and the Beatles exploded on the scene.

In the end Petty is right about one important thing - the experience of working his way up from the dive clubs has given him a fraternal perspective, one of survival. A rich base from which to compose from. All the great artists used these experiences to enrich their music, which give fans something human to relate to. The game show winners ordinarily do not have that place in their history, and it shows in the quality of the songs. The formula is fine for quick strike hits, but the new breed is devoid of any soul. It's missing the heart of all the great music we find ourselves going back to.

 

You may only have to wait a couple of days...

Anyway not to get off topic but there are a lot of Petty fans who think that his 1994 effort "Wildflowers" is his best record. For what it's worth Tom seems to think so, referencing it in his autobiography as the album he's always trying to top whenever he goes into the studio.

 

Since those now in the Ye Olde Farts Club were the ones who pretty much invented the condescending 20-something back in the day ("never trust anyone over 30!"), maybe those guys should be the one to come up with the appropriate nickname?

 

Ricky Nelson started on TV....he's good.

 

Wildflowers: Not only his best, but one of the very best rock albums of the post-1970's. A gem in anyone's book.

 

I think what Tom Petty is saying is that in order to be really good, one needs to practice their craft a lot in various settings. Usually, this is done by bands starting from the ground up playing pool parties to dives in order to get better and be heard. The Beatles did it in Hamburg, playing for over 12 hours each day to a bunch of drunks in whorehouses. Today, with these "talent" shows, someone who never played in front of people before is thrown into the limelight as a "star." As we see, even the winners of such programs rarely achieve longevity. I'm not saying it can't happen, and I enjoy shows like American Idol myself, but I think I understand what he means.

 

Not that I went to see her but Taylor Swift had a very reasonable price set for her last concert here.

Artists can have control over ticket prices.

 

This is a well written position, the problem is that it's filled with way too many strawmen.

1) Nobody looks to TV to tell them what music to like anymore than they did in any previous generation (since TV existed, anyway).
2) There have always been singers who just sing, and nobody has ever expect them have the depth to compose, arrange and produce their own compositions. They have always left this duty to the hand of the industry assigned "professionals". There's no place in the industry for singers that don't write and produce their own songs that come their own rich base of struggling to become successful? Damn, I guess I have get rid of my Diana Ross and the Supremes collection now...

It's apples and oranges and always has been. If the few winners from these shows who go on to success are the ones who are diluting the quality of music, then so have all the singer-only types that preceded them. How is Kelly Clarkson any worse than Pat Benatar? How is Miranda Lambert any worse than Linda Ronstadt? How is Carrie Underwood any different from Dionne Warwick?

Like I said earlier, Petty may have a point about modern pop music to certain degree, but he's aiming at the wrong target. Game show winners or not, these girls can sing and can sing as well as any who have come before them. If the songwriting or production isn't up to certain standards---I'd argue that's just subjective taste---but even presuming that's so, that's not something these game shows had anything to do with directly.

If anything, they up the ante for the quality of actual and real singing that exists in pop music, they don't bring it down.

 

In most cases, the contestants on these shows have been practicing and performing for years. Entering these contests is just yet another way to try and win exposure for themselves and further their career.

Sure, there's the occasional really young kid who hasn't done much, but they are much more the exception than the rule. For people to not understand this and express their "outage!" over these programs just ends up making themselves look kind of foolish. Mr. Petty included, unfortunately.

Here's another bio on a recent contest show winner. Cassadee Pope won a season of The Voice and recently had her album hit #1 on the Country album charts:

While in Wellington Christian School in Wellington, Florida, Pope formed the band Blake with good friend Mike Gentile. The project disbanded before being signed and in 2008, she and Gentile along with Alex Lipshaw, Michael "Jersey" Moriarty, and Elliot James founded the pop punk band Hey Monday. Hey Monday released their first studio album, Hold on Tight, in October 2008. Pope wrote two songs and co-wrote the other nine songs. She appeared in Fall Out Boy's video for "America's Suitehearts", from their 2008 album Folie à Deux. She also provided guest vocals for The Cab's remix version of their song "Take My Hand" that appeared on Fall Out Boy's mixtape, Welcome to the New Administration, and appeared in the music video for it the following summer of 2009. She had a guest appearance as herself in the Degrassi: The Next Generation TV Movie, Degrassi Goes Hollywood, along with Pete Wentz. James departed from the band at the end of 2009. Hey Monday's first EP Beneath It All was to be released in August 2010. The Christmas EP was released on December 6, 2011. It was followed later that month by an announcement that Hey Monday had taken an indefinite hiatus on good terms, while the band members pursue individual side projects, with Pope going solo. Also in 2010, Pope and the rest of Hey Monday along with the members from Stereo Skyline appeared on an episode of the MTV show called "Silent Library; Celebrity Edition".

Hey Monday toured with bands such as Fall Out Boy, All Time Low and Yellowcard. She has performed guest vocals live for We the Kings's song "We'll Be a Dream" replacing Demi Lovato (original vocals on the song) as well as live vocals for Yellowcard, The Academy Is..., All Time Low, Attack Attack!, The Cab, Cobra Starship, Fall Out Boy, This Providence, and I See Stars.

In early 2012, Pope embarked on her first solo acoustic tour across the east and west coasts.[6][7] She released her debut self-titled EP (self-labeled) on May 22, 2012, featuring four songs: "Original Love", "Secondhand", "I Guess We're Cool", and "Told You So." All of the songs on the EP were written by Pope herself.[8] She auditioned for season 3 of the popular singing competition, The Voice, during the summer...

 

Who cares.....give me rock n roll and Elvis....and I'm good.

 

i doubt kid rock did anything to avoid scalpers, im not a fan of his, but have found myself at two of his concerts in recent years. maybe 800 people in 10000 arenas. not a scalper in sight. its more like thats what he has to charge if he wants to even gig.
this whole ticket thing is simple, artists make no money on record/cd etc sales because people take for free. so they have to compensate with the tix thing before, and it will happen, that goes south too.

 

I've always interpreted what he says about "Game Shows" as: If he had to make it as big as he has by being on a game show, he would never had made it. I understand his point.