Sony XA9000ES vs. XA777ES SACD players: my review

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by SamS, May 29, 2004.

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  1. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend Thread Starter

    Location:
    Texas
    Hi,

    A couple of weeks ago, I was able to get a new "toy", and upgraded my Sony SCD-XA777ES multi-channel CD/SACD player to the SCD-XA9000ES.

    I have owned the XA777ES for almost a year and 1/2 now and have really enjoyed all aspects of its CD/SACD/MCH SACD sound. A recent review of the XA9000ES in Stereophile got me really intrigued as it pointed out the new model could output 2-ch sound from its 5.1 outputs, something the XA777ES cannot do. As a result, hooking up the XA777ES is a two-step affair, requiring both my 5.1 analog inputs on my analog pre-amp (Sony TA-P9000ES) as the stereo L/R jacks must be hooked up separately from the 5.1 outputs. This configuration of separate CD/SACD stereo outputs effectively wiped out my ability to listen to my DVD-A player as I was "out" of analog inputs. Make sense?

    Researching the XA9000ES, it was apparent Sony designed this one similar to the XA777ES, using its highest-quality "Tri-Powered DAC System" only on the separate L/R jacks again. Sony simply states to get the best sound from stereo sources, use the separate L/R jacks in addition to the 5.1 outputs. I thought I was back to square one :sigh: With a little creative thinking, and mental prodding from forum member Metralla, I came up with a solution: Use the separate (Tri-Powered DAC) L/R jacks into my 5.1 input, along with the regular center, surround and sub outputs. Since the XA9000ES now duplicates the L/R channels of a 5.1 SACD for the separate L/R jacks, I now have a funky-wired solution to use just one set of 5.1 inputs on my pre-amp for every signal coming out of the XA9000ES :thumbsup:

    Okay, so now that the configuration nonsense has been worked out, what is the other benefit of the XA9000ES? Time delay for MCH SACDs! Only a few newer Sony players are able to accomplish this in the DSD domain. Another good quality of this machine is its ability to invoke the time-delay feature while still in the "Multi-channel Direct" mode, which eliminates bass management and is the purest way to get the signal out of the player. Good news indeed, as I use 5 full range speakers and do the level-adjustment in the pre-amp thereby getting the purist mode for MCH SACD along with time-delay.

    Sound
    I was easily able to A/B the newer player vs. the old since I am just now selling off the XA777ES. The first thing I noticed on stereo SACDs/CDs was a more focused soundstage. Vocals seemed more locked in the center of the mix with great clarity and smoothness. I attribute this to the addition of more BB1738 DACs in the XA9000ES. I really didn't expect to hear a difference, but I did. The newer model now uses six Burr Brown 1738 DACs per channel, and when combined in the "Tri-Powered" mode, gets to use a full 18 DACs summed for each of the separate L/R stereo outputs. The XA777ES uses one dual-channel BB1738 for each 5.1 channel which gets summed to 3 DACs summed for each of the separate L/R stereo outputs.

    Multi-Channel SACD Listening
    I spent about two hours initially playing with the distance settings of the XA9000ES' 5.1 output configurations. The default setting is for increments of feet for the sub/front L&R/center/surround L&R. Note that you cannot individually set distances for the mains or L&R surrounds. So if you have one surround speaker much closer to you than another, you will have to do some experimenting. Luckily for me, my surrounds are equidistant from my listening position. After not being completely satisfied with the settings I got at the "feet" increment level, I switched over to the meters increment, where Sony allows you to adjust in one-tenth meter increments. Much better. With reference MCH SACDs that I know where the vocal and surround mix should "be" I was able to really dial in the time-alignment. I ended up with the following: Front L/R-3.0 meters, Center-2.3 meters, Surround L/R 2.7 meters, Sub -4.3 meters. This varied a foot or so from actual measured distances. I started with a tape measure and careful listening but soon realized that further distance tweaking was needed to overcome variables like room reflections and speaker height.

    I cannot overstate how profound the impact this has on the sounds of MCH SACDs. A revelation for sure. Instead of sound just coming at you from the rears and especially the center "in your face", I was able to seamlessly blend them for a wrap-around effect. Note that there's no echo or reverb sound, just sounds like the speakers are now blended in the sound stage where the should be. Makes it much easier to listen to MCH SACDs mixed with hard vocals in the center, i.e. James Taylor. It helped the surrounds too. Almost like a wall was opened up behind my surround speakers and sound wasn't as forceful. The sub distance was significant as well. Now the bass seems to come from the center of the room, not my far left corner of the listening room. Just "locked in" is the best way to describe it. Listening to the spooky sounds of Miles Davis In A Silent Way in 5.1 is totally amazing now! Sounds just float around the room like never before.

    Cosmetics and other features
    Some nice user interface features have improved upon the XA777ES. Sony has kindly added the ability for you to select the default CD/SACD output for hybrid discs. This was a feature on my old C555ES, why did the remove it for the XA777ES? I always hated this... you insert a hybrid MCH SACD on Sony's (former) flagship SACD player and your default is the crummy redbook later :confused:

    Another cool potential feature is Sony's inclusion of a IEEE1394 output on the XA9000ES. Sony even supplies you with the proper 4-pin FireWire connector. When you activate the IEEE1394 output, all analog outputs (including headphone jack) are disabled. While I was able to turn it on, I have no way to evaluate it's usefulness at this point.

    Sony also changed the LED readout on the XA9000ES. It appears to be the same as the C555ES model, as you can see the blank lights for Discs 1-5.

    One of my favorite feature of the new machine is the cosmetics. As you can see from the picture, it's an all silver chassis with an angled front with the transport controls. A new multi-function track select knob on the front is larger and better machined than the XA777ES version. The transport buttons are all metal, and scream "high-end" with a simple push. No flimsy plastic here!!

    Overall
    Since I figured out a way to upgrade to this newer model with minimal out-of-pocket expense, I'm more than satisfied. I'm thoroughly hooked on multi-channel SACDs now! Plus I get to use my DVD-A player with the reconfigured hook-ups :cool: Add the slightly improved sound for stereo SACDs and redbook discs, and we have a winner :D
     
  2. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Alex Peychev said: "I have the XA9000ES Service Manual here in front of me and every time I count the DACs they are only 6"

    It would be very easy for you to resolve this dichotomy. Take the top off and have a look at the three vertical boards. How many DACs can you count on each board?
     
  3. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend Thread Starter

    Location:
    Texas
    Calling all screwdrivers!!!!

    Geoff, I took your suggestion and popped the top on both XA777ES and XA9000ES. My findings.......




    ....are inconclusive :sigh:

    It is somewhat hard to determine which chip is the actual BB1738 on each board. There is a gray 1" x 1/2" chip on each board (center/sub board is most easily visible) that appears to be in slightly different spots on the two machines. There is also another longer, gray, similar chip on the same board towards to the front of the machine.

    I thought it woud be easier/more obvious than that. I did notice the part numbers on the dual R-core transformers are different on each machine. You can see them on the left side of this picture. I wish I had a digital camera to help make sense of it all.

    I originally discredited the 18 DACs/channel comments too, but reading up on Sony's white paper for the XA9000ES, they clearly reference the increased number of DACs and even have diagrams representing the improvement. XA9000ES white paper.

    I suppose it's still up in the air?
     
  4. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    SamS, I really admire your hands-on attitude. Thanks.

    But what you are expecting to see (if you are right) is 3 (or is it 6?) dual-channel DACs on each XA9000 sub-board. Three (or six - I'm so confused) chips that look exactly the same.
     
  5. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend Thread Starter

    Location:
    Texas
    I should be seeing actually twelve chips on each board, as their are supposedly 6 for each channel. Each of the three multi-channel boards houses two channels.

    However, the way the boards are configured makes it difficult to see. I almost think the chips are housed in a grey plastic casing towards the front of the boards (opposite the jack end).

    Anyone know how big the Burr Brown 1738 chips are? I expected them to be the size of a finger nail. If that's the case, they would should be easier to see on either machine.
     
  6. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    They are dual channel DACs, so you would only need 6 chips on each board to have 6 DACs per channel.
     
  7. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend Thread Starter

    Location:
    Texas
    According to page 18 of the white paper, each BB1738 they use is dual-channel, and 6 of these are used for each of the 5.1 channels, so I still hold onto my theory that (if) the boards have multiple DACs there would be 12 on each of the three boards.

    Back in the days of my C555ES, there were only three total of these BB1738s. Each dual channel DAC handled two of the 5.1 channels.

    EDIT: Hey Geoff, please click on link to XA9000ES white paper above and check out page 18. At the bottom of the page there is a picture of the audio boards. If you can "point" to where the DACs will be on that board, I can try for a better look tomorrow.
     
  8. LeeS

    LeeS Music Fan

    Location:
    Atlanta
    Sam,

    Thanks for the review. I have been considering this one to complement my SCD777ES.

    There is also the new flagship SCD-DR1 just being shown in Tokyo. Probably hear more on that soon...
     
  9. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend Thread Starter

    Location:
    Texas
    Hi Lee,

    You mean this one? SCD-DR1

    I may be mistaken, but this might be a two-channel only machine. For some reason I don't think we'll ever see it hear in the US.
     
  10. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    On page 2 of the white paper it says there are "eighteen separate SA DAC chips that deliver the unprecedented precision of 36 DACs".

    Since there are 3 boards (L/R, L/R rear, sub+centre) each board should have 6 DAC chips.

    That picture is not that useful. It would have been better if they had pulled one of the boards out and taken a picture. I can tell you by looking at the Service Manual I have for the XA777ES, that the two DACs on each audio sub-board are located at the opposite end to the output jacks (as you might expect).
     
  11. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend Thread Starter

    Location:
    Texas

    Yep, you are right. This whole thing confuses me :sigh:

    Unfortunately with the boards in the machine, I have about as much visibility as you'd see in this picture. Should be cut-and-dry, but the placement of the boards and all the stuff around it makes it difficult.

    Still, regardless of the DAC count, I stand by my observations that the newer machine has a slight stereo performance benefit over the old one. It is rather small, but was significant enough to be noticible in an A/B test. The main circuit board layout is definitely different between the two machines. The XA9000ES uses the CXD2752R DSD-decoder, I'm not sure which one the XA777ES uses.
     
  12. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    I have the service manual. The SCD-XA777ES uses the CXD2752R DSD Decoder.
     
  13. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend Thread Starter

    Location:
    Texas
    Thanks for confirming, I wasn't really sure and couldn't find any documentation.
     
  14. antonkk

    antonkk Senior Member

    Location:
    moscow
    I never tried 777, but 9000 is the best player I ever heard! I'm extremely happy with this one. Not a single weakness so far and I only use stereo.
     
  15. LeeS

    LeeS Music Fan

    Location:
    Atlanta
    Yes Sam, that's the one. Two channel is fine for me. :)
     
  16. Jeffrey

    Jeffrey Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    South Texas
    Hi Sam,

    Please give us a more detailed review on why you like the 9000 more in two channel. I've strongly considered buying one or the other for two channel playback and could really use your advice.

    Thanks,
    Jeffrey
     
  17. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend Thread Starter

    Location:
    Texas
    Hi Jeffrey,

    I don't have the two hooked up any longer for more A/B testing :(

    When I did, the two-channel peformance of both was the most similar thing about them. I preferred the XA9000ES because of the increased smoothness in the vocal range. Bass was the same and treble was similar. If you are only looking at these machines for stereo playback, you are probably OK with the XA777ES as a better value. The price difference for the XA9000ES really shines through when experiencing 5.1 playback and simplification for hookup with the output jack configuration.
     
  18. Jeffrey

    Jeffrey Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    South Texas
    Hi Sam,

    Thanks for the info./advice...... most appreciated! :)

    Take care,
    Jeffrey
     
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