Sordel Listens To Dylan

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Sordel, Jan 22, 2014.

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  1. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    The Bob Dylan SACDs continue to dribble into my collection and "Freewheelin'" managed to pop up at Rasputin's a few months before I saw "Inside Llewyn Davis", read "Mayor of MacDougal" and worked on learning "Don't Think Twice, it's Alright." I find myself continuing to resist the charms of early Dylan LPs. My sense is that the artist finally lands on the square somewhere in the vicinity of "Bringing it All Back Home/Highway 61 Revisited, realizing that his voice is more attuned to Blues and that his songs needed matching accompaniments. In any case, have owned this as an LP in the recent past but didn't play it all that much back then, don't play it all that much now. Even though I've been aware of Dylan since I was little, his early work always sounded mannered in a way that resists absorption.

    And now your moment of stupification:

     
  2. Sordel

    Sordel Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Switzerland
    That link doesn't work in the UK but if it's the song based on palindromes, I found it elsewhere and it took me the better part of half the song to work out was going on. Incidentally, I was actually going to post in the thread about spoiling an album title with one word (but hell, it would be lost in that thread, so I'll use it here) that Aoxomoxoa is ruined by adding any single word. (Yes, I win the internet yet again.)

    Your point about Dylan's voice being more suited to Blues is one that he would clearly agree with given his later career development but actually I disagree. It was very convenient for him to go towards Blues because he is not much of a melodist and the songs of his with the best tunes are usually built on hymn or folk tunes; moreover, Blues usually has a refrain and no chorus, which suits someone who writes a lot of lyrics. But Dylan's actual voice doesn't for me have the growl & gravel that suits Blues best; yes, he manages to put some roughness into it, especially later in life, but when you consider how well he could sing when he felt it appropriate I really think that might have suited him even better. That nasal "revving engine" whine to his voice that gets parodied a lot is really an attempt on his part to overcome a fundamental lack of weight and volume. We'll never know the performances that he could have given us as a more melodic singer, but I think he certainly had the voice for it.
     
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  3. Arkady

    Arkady Forum Resident

    The sound engineer on Dylan's last few albums has been quoted as saying that his voice is actually naturally very loud, which makes him relatively easy to record even with a live band in the room. I agree with you, though, that he really can sing melodically when he wants too, even at this stage - it will be really interesting to see what you make of Shadows in the Night. That one really surprised us all! He's not held a tune in that way for years, nay decades.
     
  4. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    I'd note that it would have to be a single word.

    My wife [a sincere Deadhead] can smoothly and fluently pronounce Aoxomoxoa.
     
  5. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    Of course, as Dylan very often is mostly about the lyrics, at this level it's kinda chicken/egg.
     
  6. Sordel

    Sordel Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Switzerland
    I'd pronounce it Ay-oxo-mock-sower (i.e. non-palindromic) ... I'd be interested to know how others pronounce it though.
     
  7. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    A-ox-o-m-ox-o-a.
     
  8. Sordel

    Sordel Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Switzerland
    I need a bit more than that: a as in the letter a (ay) at both ends? m as in mm or em? o as in oh?

    Wikipedia has this, which I would say is the same as mine but treating the first a as silent: "According to the audio version of the Rock Scully memoir, Living with the Dead (read by the author and former Dead co-manager himself), the title is pronounced "ox-oh-mox-oh-ah"."
     
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  9. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    I'll ask her later today.
     
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  10. Sordel

    Sordel Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Switzerland
    (Half-Time Review)

    I could hardly be more exactly at the midpoint of this process: 3/6 live albums done, 4/8 albums from the Mono box, 2/5 double albums, 21/42 individual releases, 23/47 discs. I started nineteen months ago, but actually most of my listening has been done in two fairly concentrated periods and fortunately that has kept it fresh so far, aided by the fact that none of these albums has so far failed to repay the effort of listening to it. Now, though, we’re coming to the release-heavy Autumn so I’ll be resting this thread again for a while. (Also not a bad idea since hardcore Dylanologist visitors to this thread will shortly being burying themselves in the Cutting Edge releases.)

    There's not much to add to my First Quarter Review all those months ago, but in terms of current highlights, here's a list of the songs that have made the biggest (positive) impression on me while listening to new Dylan for this thread:
    • Planet Waves, “Dirge”
    • Street-Legal, “Is Your Love For Vain?”
    • World Gone Wrong, “Lone Pilgrim”
    • Time Out Of Mind, “Not Dark Yet”
    • Tempest, “Roll On John”
    • Hard Rain, “You’re A Big Girl Now”
    I wasn’t necessarily going to “do” this album (since it’s not in the box!) but since it’s been brought up, let’s have this one as a sort of “Half Time Show”:

    Shadows In The Night

    Preconceptions: I’m disposed to like Jazz Age standards but I didn’t follow anything about this album when it came out.

    1. “I’m A Fool To Want You”. I love Linda Ronstadt’s version of this and I think that it’s generally under-performed amongst the standards. Dylan gives it (understandably given the way his voice has gone) a very Tom Waits feel, and since I like Waits in this mood I definitely “cotton” to Dylan’s version.
    2. “The Night We Called It A Day”. Not a song I particularly know. The brass makes for a nice arrangement element because we’re unused to hearing Dylan’s voice against brass.
    3. “Stay With Me”. Another song I don’t really know: one with a very hymn-like lyric that (with its emphasis on age) is almost too on-the-nose for a man of Bob’s advancing years.
    4. “Autumn Leaves”. Another song I love, largely due to the many versions by Keith Jarrett although I have others, including Rickie Lee Jones’s rather good version. Dylan’s vocal as a touching weariness: you could imagine Piaf or Dietrich singing it in much this style. I’m a little sorry that this version is so short.
    5. “Why Try To Change Me Now”. A rather apposite lyric but again I don’t know the song and it doesn't seem to be of the same quality as others here.
    6. “Some Enchanted Evening”. I don't own another version of this. Although I'd have said that it was a song that I knew, hearing the full song here makes it feel quite fresh. It suits Dylan’s voice, although his delivery here is slightly “stuffed-up”, as though he was suffering from a cold at the time.
    7. “Full Moon and Empty Arms”. I don't know the song and it doesn’t make a great impression
    8. but I think it's mighty hard that Rachmaninov doesn't event get a credit, despite supplying the entire melody.
    9. “Where Are You?” Another song I don’t know, and Dylan’s voice sounds to me rather tired on it, although I suppose that might be a performing choice.
    10. “What’ll I do?”. This was used as the theme tune for a popular UK sit-com, but the version that I own is again Linda Ronstadt's. To be honest it's never been a favourite of mine and I think that Dylan takes it a little slow.
    11. “That Lucky Old Sun”. I have Johnny Cash and Jerry Garcia’s versions of this, but it's still not a song I know. For me, it's the best thing on the album because everything seems to come together on it: the wistfulness of Dylan’s voice, the restrained brass and that pronounced Tom Waits sentimentality. Great climax for the album as well.
    Overall: I didn’t know that these were specifically Sinatra songs when I first listened to them and certainly I wouldn’t have picked up one a suggestion of Sinatra had I not read that. I think that if another artist put out a rather under-arranged 35-minute set of standards then a lot of people would cry foul but Dylan currently has the critics and fans so well trained that they are happy to accept what he chooses to deliver. There’s a danger, I suppose, of investing the performances wiht a pathos that comes more from the state of Dylan’s voice than from his deliberate emoting: but in fact he discriminates nicely between the songs, finding a carefree tone in “Why Try To Change Me Now?” that is notably at odds with the desolation of “Autumn Leaves”. Certainly there’s not much complain about here and it can be filed alongside Christmas In The Heart as a pleasant diversion at the end of the catalogue.

    For now, I’ll take an indefensibly healthy harvest from this album for my playlist: “I’m a Fool To Want You”, “Stay With Me”, “Autumn Leaves” & “That Lucky Old Sun”.
     
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  11. Arkady

    Arkady Forum Resident

    Enjoy your break Sordel, thanks for the stimulating posts. I look forward to your return.
     
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  12. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    Shadows In The Night

    Preconceptions: I've got duplicate copies of Sinatra's Grey Label Capitol LPs.

    Not all of them, mind you, but at the rate I'm going, I eventually will. I'm looking for the best copies. There's enough songs beautifully composed, arranged, sung on these slabs of vinyl to last a lifetime. I play them a lot. The audio quality is about as good as the mid-1950's ever gets. When I listen to Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennett, Dean Martin, the term bel canto springs to mind. Whatever else one might say of Bob Dylan's vocal production, bel canto is about the last thing to come to mind.

    I followed the news about Shadows in the Night online, heard the samples as they appeared. I had a hard enough time dealing with the Bobster's vocal estate on Tempest, where there's a couple of songs I like. I suspect there's a better "Early Roman Kings" on the cutting-room floor. I have no plans to hear the rest of Shadows in the Night. Being a music omnivore doesn't necessarily mean I'll happily ingest everything presented to my ears.
     
  13. Sordel

    Sordel Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Switzerland
    I've never undergone the Sinatra training regime like I'm going through the Dylan training regime now, and he's another big gap in my musical education. I can see why someone deeply into Sinatra wouldn't want to hear Dylan singing the same songs though: Sinatra has a very craftsmanlike approach to vocals and once you get into his way of approaching a song I can't believe that there's a while lot of incentive to go back again.

    Coincidentally I ordered the Voice On Air set a few days ago.
     
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  14. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    I musta had Sinatra with the formula, earliest music I can remember is Nat King Cole, Sinatra's not far behind. The "On The Air" box should be Ol' Blue Eyes at his bel-canto-est. Dylan's radical break from that style of singing may be his most important contribution to the singer-songwriter scene. A lot of songwriters who would otherwise have been "covered" by 'professional' singers could issue their own records in spite of their voices [I'm looking at you, Randy Newman].

    On the other hand, if I want to hear "I Wish I Were In Love Again", I know where to go:

     
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  15. Linolad

    Linolad Forum Resident

    I would go straight to Ella for this song myself, however I like Sinatra as well
     
  16. Sordel

    Sordel Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Switzerland
    Bringing It All Back Home (“Cutting Edge” Version)

    Why This One? The Cutting Edge presents me with a conundrum since I can hardly steep myself at this point in Blonde On Blonde or Highway 61 Revisited: two albums that I have been studiously laying off in a big way. So, by way of another half-time entertainment, here’s a chance to revisit Bringing It All Back Home through the lens afforded by the six-disc set.

    Preconceptions. The additional session takes blow up a 47 minute album into a playlist of one and three-quarter hours: the expectation would be that there is a lot of surplus. In each case I listened to the stereo album version in album order followed by the available takes. (I did listen to the two songs not represented on The Cutting Edge as well for all the difference that makes.)

    1. "Subterranean Homesick Blues" - Great start to this experiment: following the familiarity of the album version, Take 1 gives a valuable solo approach to the song, where the lyrics are very clear indeed. This goes straight into my playlist. The Take 1 Alternate Take is very close to the album version.
    2. "She Belongs To Me" - This song didn't make my playlist originally but - having “brute forced” through four versions on the trot - I’m not quite sure why not. Take 1 is a nice solo version with a good, expressive vocal performance, signalling how well Dylan knew his route through the song before ever starting to record it. It’s a little slow though. The Take 1 Remake is the fastest and has a pleasant briskness to it, although having the guitar too low in the mix makes it feel unfinished. Take 2, with the gently meandering electric guitar in the background and the too-emphatic strumming, feels a little tentative and drawn out to me. Ironically, it’s actually the master take that belatedly goes into my playlist but I also include the solo take for contrast: the second solo take in a row to make the grade.
    3. "Love Minus Zero/No Limit" - No Road To Damascus moment for me with this song. Of the four takes, the acoustic take (Take 2) is interesting for the way that Dylan clearly hasn’t worked out quite how the lyric fits to the music. At approaching four minutes, Take 3 is getting on for a third longer than the master take, which is rather unwelcome on this particular song. The master take is pretty clearly the best of the bunch, but it still doesn’t enter my playlist.
    4. "Outlaw Blues" - I already liked the master take on this one, but Take 1 is a small revelation, uncovering the comparatively modest and conventional song behind the brash rocker. The percussionless Take 2 is very rough ’n’ ready with the steam train harmonica doing its best to keep the band on the beat. The master is the best of the bunch but Take 1 joins it in my playlist.
    5. "On The Road Again" - I didn’t think much of the master take on this one, which felt rather transitional. The piano accompaniment & stamping (?) on “Take 1, Complete” have the virtue of novelty, but the aggressive drumming on “Take 1 Remake, Complete” is even more appealing, suggesting a direction that might have been more profitably taken. “Take 4, Alternate Take”, with its imperfectly handled syncopation (it’s a relief when the tambourine shuts up) is possibly something that could have been pulled off by a different band but would have required more rehearsal. By “Take 7 Remake, Complete” we’re back to the master take arrangement. I actually find “Take 1 Remake, Complete” to be the best of the versions here, but the song still does little for me.
    6. "Bob Dylan’s 115th Dream" - In my original comments on this song (above) I said that I felt that the arrangement on the master take was a weakness, so it’s nice to get a complete solo acoustic take that gives us an unadorned version of the lyric. It’s not to me a viable alternate version, since the guitar accompaniment is obviously just a placeholder, but it’s a nice little bonus.
    7. “Mr. Tambourine Man” - The false starts and then “Take 3 with Band, Incomplete” provide a rather horrific glimpse of the road not taken, since that tambourine accompaniment is absolutely dreadful, and I don’t think it could ever have worked: I 100% agree with Dylan’s comment at the end.
    8. “It’s Alright, Ma (I’m Only Bleeding)” - There’s no meaningful alternate for this, just some studio chatter and an abandoned start.
    9. “It’s All Over Now, Baby Blue” - Those of us considering a solo acoustic BIABH here get another pleasing take, but I don’t think that most people are going to choose this run-through over the master take.
    Conclusion. These tracks probably show The Cutting Edge at its best and worse. Being able to hear the original versions of songs such as “Subterranean Homesick Blues”, “Outlaw Blues” & “She Belongs To Me” gives us clean performances that could be viewed as a valuable last look at the pre-electric Dylan; these are potential go-tos, even if that would ultimately mean going against Dylan’s intention at the time.

    Some of the songs with a more varied arrangement history succeed in giving us an audio documentary of how Dylan got where he was going. There’s mercifully little here that amounts to duplication across takes, but I’m not convinced that the discarded experiments here are going to merit a lot of repeated plays, even when (as in the case of “On The Road Again”), it’s a discarded version that is my preferred take.

    The biggest frustration, though, is of course going to be the tracks for which there is no genuine alternate in the 6-disc set. It’s unlucky that the best coverage in the set goes to a song that doesn’t interest me (“Back On The Road Again”) while we are given not a single complete alternative for “Mr. Tambourine Man” or “It’s Alright, Ma (I’m Only Bleeding)”. Of course the editors cannot manufacture session takes where none exist but it does remind us that the songs most fully covered in the set will be those that had the most difficult births. After listening to about an hour of the new set I have ambivalent feelings about what I will find when I permit myself to hear the remaining six hours.

    The album itself reemerges from this revisitation much as I left it: a mixed bag that doesn’t hang together as well as the albums on either side of it.
     
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  17. FieldingMellishhh

    FieldingMellishhh New Member

    !
     
  18. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    Used to be a fanatic Charlie Parker collector. Every burp, fart and squeak emitted by this monument to musical culture was going to be a part of the permanent collection. Then I started listening. I suspect alternate-take frenzy started with Yardbird, now it's happening to the Bobster. The two-disc highlights reels will suffice for me. Also suspect that I like Bringing It All Back Home a notch or two more than you, agree that it's all over the place. I'd bet that the Highway 61 outtakes will be more interesting.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2015
  19. alchemy

    alchemy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sterling, VA
    Always late to the party, I am.

    Regarding the song Dirge, I always thought it was about the seductive power of addiction. Whether it be drugs, sex, love, desire or fame. I hate myself for loving you and the weakness that it showed. Flash to to the end, I hate myself for loving you, but I should soon get over that.

    Oh yea, fool that I am I'd do it all over again.

    .
     
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  20. Gabe Walters

    Gabe Walters Forum Resident

    He'd tried "Mr. Tambourine Man" in a studio session in 1964, and had played it live several times before the sessions represented on this new release, so had it worked out already. The real draw of The Cutting Edge is the NYC and Nashville Blonde on Blonde sessions, and perhaps also the Hwy 61 Revisited sessions, moreso than the Bringing sessions, in my opinion.
     
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  21. Sordel

    Sordel Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Switzerland
    Yes, it's also the meat of the set, but it'll have to wait for me until I'm ready for those two albums. They may well be the last two I do ... still, something to look forward to in my old age ...
     
  22. Gabe Walters

    Gabe Walters Forum Resident

    Saving the best for last, eh? A nice reward to look forward to.
     
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  23. Sordel

    Sordel Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Switzerland
    I may have mentioned in the course of this thread that the idea was to keep H61R until then end because it's the one that I went into the process liking most. By contrast, BOB is the one that I know that I ought to like but have not previously got on with: I'm interested to see how my view of those two will change as the result of such heavy self-indoctrination ... and it would seem a little anticlimactic to pick up a disc that ended up last on purely random criteria.

    H61R
    will definitely be last, I think, but I may do BOB a little earlier depending on how the mood takes me. I started with no real plan but as time progressed I've got a rough idea now of what the order will be.
     
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  24. DmitriKaramazov

    DmitriKaramazov Senior Member

    So Sordel, are we to expect a review of ALL 18 CDs? :D :winkgrin:
     
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  25. Sordel

    Sordel Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Switzerland
    I am absolutely prepared to do that in the fullness of time if someone is offering to buy me the 18CD set. :D
     
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