Soundsmith-VPI Zephyr Moving Iron cartridge

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by McGruder, Oct 29, 2011.

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  1. McGruder

    McGruder Eternal Musicphile Thread Starter

    Location:
    Maryland
    I received this cartridge last Thursday, and have been listening ever since. Great way to celebrate the weekend after a demanding week at the office.

    Setup on my VPI Classic and JMW 10.5i arm has been more difficult than usual. The pins are good quality, and the cart body is threaded. Once the table was powered on, I was picking up a quite audible hum in my left channel where I had dead silence with my Dynavector DV-20XL (retipped by Soundsmith). The hum with the Zephyr is akin to what you might hear when your turntable ground wire is not connected. I went over all of my tonearm cable, ground wire and cartridge pin connections, and checked the lay of my unshielded DIY silver in cotton dielectric interconnects (Chris Venhaus recipe). I couldn't find any issues, so I swapped in some directionally shielded Audioquest Niagara interconnects, and the hum thankfully disappeared (I wonder what cables Tullman is using). This was all kind of disappointing, since I discovered that my unshielded DIY silver interconnects had synergized so nicely throughout the chain for my vinyl playback with that Dynavector in place. I'd love to understand why certain carts generate hum (anyone?).

    The setup continues... I set the VTF to 1.8, and a level VTA as a starting point, and did my best using the VPI azimuth rod. These settings resulted in the cart to sitting a bit low, but when I introduced the VPI Outer Ring accessory, the cart was making contact with the ring. I read some of Tullman's posts about the same experience, so I lowered the VTF to 1.4, and used slightly tail up VTA. Haven't noticed any tracking or anti-skating issues (good!). This adjustment seems to clear the Outer Ring with the 20 or so LP's (probably 30 LP sides) I've spun since then (more good!).

    The 2.4mV output is enough to drive my Marantz PH-22's 47K Ohm settings, but the volume output is about 12 x .5 dB increments or 6dB lower on my Marantz SC7S2 preamp than the Dyna DV-20XL played through my MC transformer input on the PH-22.

    OK, so the preamp volume set 6dB higher compensates for the lower output - I just need to be mindful as I switch to higher output digital sources, but is all of this a good matching of components? Going to Moving Iron was supposed to provide the benefit of going through less complex MM phono stage circuitry, and represent a less fickle solution than low output MC cartridges not to mention the added benefit of a lower mass cantilever assembly.

    Upon spinning my first LP (Grateful Dead, In the Wake of the Flood, original pressing), I noticed some differences immediately. The treble is more extended, the bass is still deep, but very tight sounding, and there is a lighter, more airy sound in overall presentation than with the Dyna DV-20XL. All of this was a lot for me to take in so I settled into some extensive listening over Grolsch beers.

    This airiness for me is somewhat of a blessing, and somewhat of a curse. The details are easier to pick up, but I think some warmth was sacrificed. Was it a loss of warmth for the better? Sometimes yes, sometimes no so far. On Pat Metheny's "Day Trip" I was experiencing an overall improvement, as everything seemed in balance, and I was really taken in by the additional detail and overall realism, particularly in the rendering of clashes of cymbals and the top end of Metheny's electric guitars - more delicate decay and stage depth. I find that the added detail often gives that fleeting glimpse of "in the room with me" experience - often associated with vocals or the drums. Elsewhere, for example with Wilco song "Company in My Back" on the "Kicking Television" LP, the vocals are spooky great, but then when the arrangements become more complex with Tweedy's vocals, Nels Cline's guitars, the organs and drums, I find things getting a little bit forward sounding and somewhat lean in the midrange. The experience is the same with other excellent pressings such as original pressing of Richard Thompson's "Pour Down Like Silver", and the reissues of the Grateful Dead's first 5 studio albums on AP.

    The Dynavector DV-20XL also seems to better portray many of the newer vinyl recordings I have which I suspect to be digitally sourced. It is warmer with better bass and mid-range body, albeit not as tight as the Zephyr. It' weird, because the Zephyr's bass does go very deep, it's just less upper bass full-bodied sounding.

    Well, I'm out of Grolsch beers, and so far, I'm back and forth on this cart. I'm spooked with realism and love it, and then it comes across a bit forward or bass shy - but of course, this cart is not yet fully broken in so time will tell. I'm troubled that the DV-20XL w/ Soundsmith retip struck me as a winner immediately, and my reaction to the Zephyr is more mixed, or less consistent. It could be the MM input is a weak point on this Marantz PH-22 stage. I'll get around to swapping the venerable EAR 834P back in there to see if it's tubed MM presentation would have better synergy in the midrange, and perhaps restore some body. I also can try swapping Audioquest Sky's back onto my amps (my DIY's are slightly more open sounding) to see if that renders a more consistently excellent experience.

    I welcome any advice or perhaps Tullman can offer some advice based on his experiences. As it stands right now, if things don't improve much, I'll probably go back to the Dyna.
     
  2. LeeS

    LeeS Music Fan

    Location:
    Atlanta
    My advice: Try the 834P and let the cartridge break in before you make any big decisions.
     
  3. Tommyboy

    Tommyboy Senior Member

    Location:
    New York
    How about trying to contact Peter at Soundsmith and get his take on it. I met him a few months ago. He's a nice guy and has an incredible system!
     
  4. McGruder

    McGruder Eternal Musicphile Thread Starter

    Location:
    Maryland
    Thanks Lee, and yes both are on my radar. Already the swapping back in of Audioquest Sky and Niagara IC's has brought about some improvements and seemingly settled things down a bit. How many hours of playing do you think is reasonable for break in of a new cart?
     
  5. McGruder

    McGruder Eternal Musicphile Thread Starter

    Location:
    Maryland
    You're right, I should consult with that Peter Lederman fellow, and I shall doggone it :agree:
     
  6. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    I had the exact same experience that you had in going from the Dynavector 20xl to the VPI Zephyr. It took some time, probably 75-100 hours, for the sound to warm up.

    I could tell, right away with my CAT tube phono preamp that the Zephyr was superior to the Dynavector in tracking and retrieving detail. Because of the better tracking I could play some lps that were too sibilant with the Dynavector.

    I prefer the Zephyr over the Dynavector hands down. Soundstage and clarity are much better. I really feel like I took a big step up, and my vinyl playback is a much more gratifying experience.

    I would hang in there for a while if I were you. Try Steve's version of Sweet Baby James or ZZ Top's Tres Hombres if you have them. Those two were unbelievable with the Zephyr.
     
    mace likes this.
  7. LeeS

    LeeS Music Fan

    Location:
    Atlanta
    It varies but based on my Grado and Lyra experience, at least 100 hours.
     
  8. McGruder

    McGruder Eternal Musicphile Thread Starter

    Location:
    Maryland
    Thanks for chiming in. This is very encouraging. Like I said, there are glimpses of great tonal presence qualities with the increased detail retrieval, and better extension - it's just somewhat forward and lacking body with parts of several good pressings right now. I'll definitely give it opportunity to break in. I hope this is not a case of needing a rich or tubey sounding system to bring about synergy with the Zephyr.
     
  9. blakep

    blakep Senior Member

    I have no experience with the Zephyr so take my advice with the obligatory grain of salt. Peter Lederman suggests a tracking force of 1.8 to 2.2 with the Zephyr from what I can see-I would definitely not be tracking that cartridge at 1.4.

    Combine that with the fact that if you are using a digital scale to set VTF with the VPI arm it will overread by as much as .2 grams (one of the reasons why VPI usually recommends slightly higher than manufacturer specified VTF) so you could be tracking as low as 1 gram. This alone could explain the type of sound you are getting. I would go back to tracking the the cartridge at the upper end of its recommended VTF with a parallel arm VTA, at least for 25-75 hours while the cartridge is breaking in.

    At that point you could then experiment with very small increases or decreases to VTF to figure out where you want to go to dial it in.

    Frankly, I would be afraid of mistracking and damaging your records the way you are set up now.

    Talking to Peter and seeking his advice would also be a good idea of course.
     
  10. HiFi Guy 008

    HiFi Guy 008 Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    You mention adjusting VTA - but are you referring to VTI? VTA and VTI are not the same thing. They both will affect what you refer to as warmth.
     
  11. McGruder

    McGruder Eternal Musicphile Thread Starter

    Location:
    Maryland
    Hi Blake, thanks for the message. I am using a digital scale, which I previously found to be dead accurate compared with the Shure analog VTF gauge that came with the table. I stack CD's next to the platter to achieve the same height as the platter prior to using the digital scale. I'll use the analog scale again just to be sure.

    I will try VTF at 1.8, and use the Soundsmith Counter Intuitive for the minute adjustments to see if that brings about improvements.

    My adjustment of VTF to 1.4 with slight "tail up" VTA was following advice Peter Lederman gave to Tullman, who also has a Classic 1 table and a Zephyr cart. In any case, I have sent an email to Peter to seek his advice.
     
  12. McGruder

    McGruder Eternal Musicphile Thread Starter

    Location:
    Maryland
    I was referring to Vertical Tracking Angle, which is the tonearm height adjustment (technically, the angle of the stylus I guess) I make at the base of my tonearm. What is VTI?
     
  13. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    I have set up my own TT since 1973 and was always satisfied with the results. I now have, for me, a very expensive setup that costs thousands of dollars. I felt I needed to have the TT adjusted and set up properly by an experienced, knowledgeable professional with all of the best equipment to do the job. It cost me $75. for this service. By the time I get the ring/weight and speed controller my setup with cables etc. will be over $6,000. $75 is a little over 1% of the total cost of my system. This turned out to be a great idea and worth every penny.

    Fortunately, I live within 25 minutes of the dealer that does this service. http://goodwinshighend.com/

    The Zephyr isn't as warm sounding as the Dynavector 20xl. The 20xl was lacking in detail and resolution and a little dull sounding on my system. The 20xl was more forgiving on lps that were on the bright side. The Zephyr is not forgiving. If the Lp is mastered well the Zephyr just shines. If the Lp is mastered poorly the Zephyr will expose it's sonic flaws.

    I still think the Dynavector 20xl is fine cartridge that has some short comings. The same can be said for the Zephyr as well. At this price range the 20xl and the Zephyr are both top performers. I have a feeling that if I were to move up to the Soundsmith Sussurro cartridge or the Dynavector XV-1s Phono Cartridge that there would be fewer of those shortcomings.

    Again, I feel that after proper setup and plenty of break-in time the Zephyr is the better cartridge for me. The Zephyr has brought my vinyl playback to levels I never knew existed. I am hearing things on records I have played many times, that I never noticed before.

    Last night I played Legacy release of Electric Lady Land and the Zephyr handled "Cross Town Traffic" without sounding congested. Overall I have never heard this lp sound so good. The subtle keyboard parts were now part of the musical presentation and not just some back ground filler.
     
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  14. McGruder

    McGruder Eternal Musicphile Thread Starter

    Location:
    Maryland
    I just wanted to report in that I went into the wee hours last night going back to level VTA and 1.8 VTF, and lots of late night listening. I also put forth the best effort I ever have to get the Azimuth correct. Audioquest Sky and Niagara cables are also back in place. All of these adjustments taken on individually.

    The VTF adjustment made a dramatic difference, essentially solving the missing mid-range and upper bass, which translated into brightness and eluded a coherent sonic presentation - that forwardness I was talking about.

    The switch back to the Audioquest cables also seemed to restore some balance and blackness to the background. Minor VTA adjustments did not make a perceivable difference. I don't hear the need for any other adjustments right now.

    With these changes in place, I can give the edge to the Zephyr over my wonderful Soundsmith tipped Dyna DV20-XL. There's more detail throughout, space between instruments, and stage depth. Jamming out to Leo Kottke "Mudlark" right now, and that tambourine is right over there, piano right there, and big bodied 12-string over there :winkgrin: Looking forward to more gradual improvements over the next 50-60 hours.

    See in the photos below the low profile of the Zephyr at 1.8 VTF, and level VTA. It rides very close to the VPI Outer Ring when the needle is dropped on the lead in groove. For albums with very short lead in groove and/or cut to slightly large diameter (causing the ring to rest on a non-tapered surface), or those albums with a warp that the ring cannot completely flatten out, or combination of the above, the Zephyr is prone to contacting the ring. I have to imagine the other Van Den Hull based carts in the Soundsmith lineup would present a similar predicament. An unfortunate compromise in those situations to dial the Zephyr in correctly. Fabulous sounding cart, and sounding like a likely successor to the Dynavector if I find that the interference with the ring is infrequent enough. I've not encountered any so far, but you can see how tight the clearance is.

    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]
     
  15. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    I plan on getting a ring. This has me thinking.
     
  16. McGruder

    McGruder Eternal Musicphile Thread Starter

    Location:
    Maryland
    I'll report back if it appears to be an issue after having the opportunity to play a large sampling of albums. Could be a big issue for Ring owners. Your comments about the Zephyr vs DV-20XL are spot on with my experiences.
     
  17. McGruder

    McGruder Eternal Musicphile Thread Starter

    Location:
    Maryland
    I meant to say B&O based carts.
     
  18. audiolab1

    audiolab1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    It's very strange that there might be an issue with this cart when using the clamp. VPI likely had some involvement in the design or voicing of the Zephyr, so this should have been taken into account. :confused:
     
  19. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    You would think so.
     
  20. Csericks

    Csericks Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin, U.S.A.
    What temperature was the Grolsch?
     
  21. McGruder

    McGruder Eternal Musicphile Thread Starter

    Location:
    Maryland
    I like my beer cold, but I also think Grolsch tastes quite good at cellar temperature :righton:
     
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  22. McGruder

    McGruder Eternal Musicphile Thread Starter

    Location:
    Maryland
    Quick update on the Zephyr, after well over 120 hours listening at this point. I'll say right up front that this cartridge is a lot more sensitive to setup than I've ever noticed with other cartridges in the past - azimuth, VTA, and especially VTF. I find the sound is best with VTF of 1.9g. This allows the dynamic capabilities of this cartridge come through. The Soundsmith Counter-intuitive became especially useful in setting up this cartridge.

    My Dynavector DV-20XL with Soundsmith ruby cantilever and line contact stylus retip already seemed a very nice cartridge with excellent dynamics, a nice delicate presentation in the treble, and seemed to make the best out of the more digital sounding or otherwise poor recordings.

    The Zephyr gets to more details in the music, and improves on the Dynavector with better frequency extension on both ends, air, stage width, transparency and greater depth. There are more opportunities for that spooky breath of life realism in the vocals range when the recording premits. It has never veered into sibilance. The downside is the noisier LP's or lesser quality recordings, perhaps more digitally sourced sounding etc. are more obviously flawed, if that makes sense. To use a more cliché descriptor, it is a more revealing cart. It can be a little bit forward sounding, in need of some warmth, or perhaps better matching with a tubed system.

    As a side note, I had concerns about the clearance of the cartridge body when using the VPI Outer Ring. I'm happy to say that this has not turned out to be an issue, however if I lay the needle down too far on the outside of the lead in groove, it does catch the edge of the Ring, especially if there is a warp in the record that the Ring cannot completely flatten out. In all cases so far, if the needle is dropped towards the middle of the lead in groove, I've managed to not have clearance problems with the VPI Ring.

    I think the Soundsmith-VPI Zephyr is quite impressive overall and I've been listening to more music than ever since I rediscovered the Vinyl playback medium. I'll also confess that I've been purchasing LP's at an alarming rate these weeks to quell my excitement for how good the rig sounds these days. Despite all of this, I'm not sure that the Zephyr's wonderfully detailed, but revealing nature is a destination or ultimate cartridge for me. I'm going to spend a few more months listening to it, giving more time for further subtle break in changes. Eventually I will assess if I want to pursue something better. Prior to the Zephyr, I was considering Dynavector XX-2. Perhaps a move up the Soundsmith MI line towards "The Voice", or a Lyra Delos or used Helikon. It's going to be a great holiday season this year, with a few weeks away from the office, and lots of new records to listen to.
     
  23. pbda

    pbda Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, England
    Your comments on the Zephyr resonate with what I've heard in my discussions with Peter. He favors a highly "honest" or analytical sound, and designs his cartridges accordingly. He is also highly focused on proper cartridge setup...I suspect that this has influenced his creation of products like the Counter Intuitive and the as-yet-unreleased Cartright.
     
  24. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    I am using an all tube system with my Zephyr and I am very happy with the sound. I am not looking to upgrade at this time.
     
  25. zongo

    zongo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Davis, CA
    No idea if this will fit your bill, but I have a VPI turntable (older, highly modified HW-19) with the JMW 10 arm and I've tried a few cartridges on it (neither the Zephyr or the Dynavector) but the one that I have found that really hits a very sweet spot is the Audio-Technica OC9 ML II. Mated with this arm it has really unbelievable tracking, really nice mix of detail and umph in playback. I haven't tried the new version (the ML III) but I think you can still buy the ML II for pretty cheap (at LPGear for $399 right now, maybe cheaper elsewhere). Probably won't break your bank if you want to try it.

    By the way, "Mudlark" is a great album!
     
    McLover likes this.
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