Speaker Cable Suggestions

What cables did you have treated?

 

As far as cryo is concerned:

Speaker Cables: Kimber 8TC and the Mogami 3103
Interconnects: some old Cambridge Audio IC's (Pacific I think) Silver Audio Silver Bullets, 47 Labs OTA and a 47 Labs OTA clone, Vampire CCC and Vampire AI II
Power Cables: Cardas Golden, Blue Circle BC 62, LAT, XLO, Belden/Volex (DIY), DH Labs Power Plus (DIY), JPS Labs in-wall (DIY) and a few others
Tonearm Cables: Cardas built by Gene @ Take Five Audio and Jelco (Mogami 2534)
Receptacles: P&S 5242 and 5262A, Arrow Hart 8300, Hubbell 5262/5362/8200/8300/8200H, Oyaide R1, Leviton IG, Bryant, Eagle, etc.
Power Conditioners: Inouye Synergistic Power Line Conditioner (2 of them)
A couple of DVD players (cheap ones-Cyberhome and Toshiba)

And probably a bunch more that I can't recall at this time. With the exception of the tonearm leads, the Vampire AI II and the Mogami 3103, I spent considerable time with all the other products in my system before they were treated. The results that I've had over the years have been pretty well universally positive so now I just tend to cryo stuff before I slot it into the system as it's not particularly expensive. Bear in mind that I started cryogenically treating stuff about 13 years ago. I generally don't churn through tons of products in my system over time, although it might look like it above. Took me the better part of 18 months to compare receptacles both cryoed and uncryoed in my system, for example.

 

I don't know if the biwire AP Black Oval 12 biwire sounds as clean, extended, etc. as a single run of (older style) Oval 9 (and I have Oval 12 jumpers) but those were a MAJOR "WOW" !!! when I installed them in my system many years ago. Yes, I got them from Alan at AudioWaves, just to add another +1 to dealing with him.

Not that Canare, BJC, etc. etc. wouldn't necessarily sound as good, better, or whatever, I haven't heard all of them. What I have heard: generic 14 gauge zip cord (and a few other generic zip cord types), some doorbell wire twisted loosely, Cat 5 cables made into a weave (I think 3 sets of wires on each side), AudioQuest Slate (old round style), then the AP Oval 9s. I had some of the previous ones in my system for years and a few upgrades of various components. I'd say the Cat 5s and then the Slates spent the most time (maybe 2 years or more each).

The 9s were jaw-droppingly good immediately upon installation - since I got them I've had no urge to upgrade or change, like my Titus speakers they've survived several major upgrades to other pieces of equipment. As Alan said, "they let you hear your components". They seem to me to be very neutral, and yes, they seemed to let another, well, I don't know about an octave, but some extension, solidity, and resolution to bass notes come out that was not there with the other cables (and I only have it connected to small monitors). Read some reviews, I'll post link(s) if I can find some ... the newer "Black" line supposedly is even mo' better ... I may go to that later if I can get away with it.

I think with a $3000 integrated amp (at least that's what I saw quickly online) it seems like you can spend some money and will be able to hear the difference. If it's not out of the question, maybe get a couple different sets and try them out. Some cables may be inexpensive enough for this test ...? but I bet against the bi-wire Oval 12 they'll prove to be the lesser performer. If you find otherwise please let us know!

 

I agree. When I switched from the Belden Blue Jeans to Bryston (to go with my Bryston amp,) the Bryston opened everything up, was much more dynamic, and better bass!

 

When did Blue Jeans start carrying Cardas? haha.

 

I don't know when, but it's been a while. They sell three speaker cables -- two Belden basic pair cables in 10 and 12 ga, and Canare 4s11 (which I presume they connect diagonally for non bi-wire set ups to lower mutual inductance).

 

I'm also looking at the Analysis Plus Oval 12/2 which is rated for in-wall use. And also can be biwired! Excellent

 

I think you mean Canare not Cardas. I owned both BJC SCs (Canare 4S11 and the BJC 10) and found them to be fairly similar. I wanted to believe BJCs could hold their own and I also wanted to believe audible differences in cables were only observed by the most trained ear. I couldn't have been further from the truth.

 

Good bang for the buck. That said, I'm a Monster guy.

 

Thanks for that.

 

Excellent indeed! I'm wondering if it sounds the same as the regular Oval 12 etc.. Wonder if AP would tell you? Seems like it should, if it uses the same 'hollow oval' geometry, is the same gauge, and maybe even the first layer of insulation material. I imagine the outer covering is what makes it rated for whatever.

Since it's "cheaper" I am guessing that something is less expensive (maybe the type of copper used isn't quite as 'snooty') ... but also wonder if having conduit would 'negate' the need to have wall-rated cables in there (I am guessing that 1) you don't really care about the 'in wall' rating and 2) for 8' runs it doesn't really matter if it's rated or not ... Seems like the rating is for long runs thru walls and ceilings, where more flammable materials are of a concern.

Whichever, I think the AP cables are winners and would bet they would sound great. Only way to tell in your system and room is to try things. That's been my philosophy over the years and it hasn't let me down often. In fact, I've only returned one item (AQ Diamondback balanced interconnects, which I added on to the Cambridge CD player purchased from Audio Advisor). I couldn't tell the difference between it and some more generic unbalanced RCA cables on the player. I got some 'Kimber KCAG clone' White Zombie ICs (highly recommended as well) and COULD hear an improvement ... so - good luck and happy listening!

PS if you're so inclined, Alan at AudioWaves sells AP cables, and to me and many others seems to be a trustworthy guy. He sold me a less expensive Audio Analogue Puccini SE (over another more expensive integrated ... Creek something) to go with my (purchased from him also) Titus speakers (and later the AP Oval 9s) - he said they just sounded better together. If/when I upgrade my AP cables, I'm going back to him. It should go without saying (like with those who would wade in with "get 12 cent/foot zip cord, you can't hear differences anyway" sorry couldn't resist) but if you ask his opinion, please buy from him if you get his recommended cable. He gives decent discounts from retail (not as low as used of course) and is great to deal with.

 

Yeah, I was just kidding there. Cardas is head and shoulders above BJC, imo. More expensive, but worth it.

 

Yes they do. No Cardas, unfortunately. Imagine Cardas at BJC prices, wow they couldn't keep them in stock! lol.

 

My bad! Pre-coffee forum scanning = bad idea

 

No worries. lol.

 

I put an order in for a bi-wire pair of chocolate oval 12/2 at Apollo AV in MI. Can't wait for them to arrive.

 

You must tell us how you like them after you have time to listen.

 

As a speaker engineer I would tend to tell you that any big gauge wire should be fine, as long as equal length on both sides. Except that once upon a time I heard a demo of some expensive cables connecting a pair of Mark Levinson mono blocks to Apogee Scintillas…and then the salesman switched to some insanely expensive MIT cables. And the violins on "Hall Of The Mountain King" didn't sound quite the same.

However, I think cables should remain a low % of the system price. It makes no sense to spend as much on cables as on, say, speakers or a phono cartridge, either of which makes vastly more difference to the sound.

So I'd tend to vote for large-gauge Blue Jeans, and add a subwoofer bye the bye as you save more money. THAT would really up the sound, filling in the very low and relieving the low bass load out of your mains and amp. Plus, unusually for an integrated, your Rega actually has pre-out main-in RCAs to accommodate the subwoofer correctly!

 

I just got the integrated a few weeks ago. How would the pre-out or main-in accommodate a sub? I thought those were for using an outboard preamp or power amp....

 

It's a line level, negating the need to "daisy chain" your speakers off the sub

 

Are those prices per PAIR (L+R) or per side run?

 

How does "cryo" work to boost performance exactly and what is "burn"?

 

I'm not convinced that "cryo" treating impacts a cable at all, but if it does and from how I understand it to work, it does not boost performance. It only aids to speed up the burn-in time.

Until such time as I'm able (or even willing) to buy 2 pair of cables and have one treated and the other not, which would allow a true comparison, I remain skeptical.

 

Cryo is controversial, but the molecular structure of metal becomes aligned under cryo conditions. The perceived value of higher purity metals and the annealing process also work in a similar way, showing fewer grain boundaries within the metal. I believe that you have some proof here that very small benefits in terms of resistance exist, but how those benefits hold up over time, with heating, bending etc. are not know. Many of the cryo naysayers suggest that whatever benefits might exist are lost as the metals revert back to their pre-cryo form.

Burn in is another controversial topic. The best scientific angle on it is that the dielectric and wire form a relationship over some period of time in which the magnetic fields that flow outside the wire become habituated and stable, reportedly changing sound during this process.

 

Supposedly it increases density of the material during cooling and also relieves any stress from drawings of the strands when back to room temperature. That part makes sense to me, I'd need to see data to see how that physical change would impact the resistance/conductivity/etc.