Speaker humming.....PLEASE HELP!!!

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by mikedifr0923, Dec 4, 2017.

  1. mikedifr0923

    mikedifr0923 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey
    So continuation from my receiver dying on me.....

    Setup is was marantz as pre, hafler p3000 amp, either Wharfedale 10.1 or Elac uni-fi speakers with Oppo and TT connected to it. There is also cable, a ps4 and ps3 connected to the tv, but I am driving that right to the tv for now trying to figure out the issues, so not connected to marantz. Also have computer, router and modem in this room but plugged into different outlet and surge protector.

    I have tried everything I can possibly think of to fix my issues

    First, had a hum coming from speakers when I added my phono stage (Vincent Phono 8). It’s the only piece of equipment I have that even has a ground connection on the back. Never got any hum with other pre’s I used. TT is a TEAC TN300 which is internally grounded. There is no ground connection on marantz or hafler. I was never was able to figure that out....

    Friday night I did a test of unplugging everything from the receiver to start connecting things one at a time. Started with my Oppo. Hum went away for the night, all good.

    Saturday switched from wharfedale to unifi speakers. Still ok in the morning and afternoon. Saturday night my marantz NR1403 died on me. I had a 1608 in another room so trying that one yesterday and getting a hum again. The hum goes down as I turn down the gain on the hafler.

    Tested the outlets themselves and they are properly grounded. The phono pre is out of the equation at this point. Tried plugging things in different outlets.

    Never had these issues with my cheap ****ty Sony system and CD player :(

    If anyone has any suggestions (other than get rid of the A/V receiver, because that can’t happen now and friends have similar ones and don’t have this issue) PLEASE send them my way. I really don’t want to return these great speakers and the amp to my buddy and go back to cheap garbage.
     
  2. mikedifr0923

    mikedifr0923 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey
    ADD to above, sorry.....I also for a little bit had iPad into DAC right into hafler and speakers were silent so I don’t think it’s the hafler

    RCA cables are all blue jeans cables except the one from Oppo to marantz which is audioquest
     
  3. stereoptic

    stereoptic Anaglyphic GORT Staff

    Location:
    NY
    Just a few questions come to mind:

    What else is on the circuit that the Marantz NR1403 is plugged into? You may want to unplug anything else on the same circuit to eliminate that possibility. Also, try plugging into to an outlet on a different circuit, even it involves a long extension cord for testing. Any light dimmers in the room? If so, does the dimmer match the type of bulbs (LED lights require an LED appropriate dimmer)?
    At what point do you hear the humming? Do you have to turn the volume to 10 just to hear it? Does it interfere when playing quiet recordings?
    Can you connect the Oppo to the Marantz with the HDMI cable instead of the RCAs and determine if there is a hum? Turn the wifi off on the Marantz?
     
    mikedifr0923 likes this.
  4. mikedifr0923

    mikedifr0923 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Thanks for the suggestions. I unplugged everything else in the room last night (other than the light) which I can try during the day over the weekend and I was still getting it. I wasn’t getting hum at one point with the Oppo/marantz/hafler/speakers. It seemed to be fine. I am now getting it with the new marantz (the 1403 “blew up” and now using the 1608, in small spurts to test everything). I didn’t set up the WiFi on that yet so I don’t think it’s that. But I do have all the WiFi stuff in the same room (although I unplugged it last night)

    The one thing I believe I have eliminated as the issue is the hafler. Without the marantz connected to it it’s fine.....I went IPad/DAC to hafler, silent.

    Just with the Oppo connected the hum can only be heard with the volume way up and close to speakers, a foot or so essentially. Which I tolerated with my Phono pre for several months not thinking anything of it had to start by unplugging that because the hum was really loud with it (I also had it plugged into a different outlet so I am going to try a new surge protected and everything into the same one

    the 1403 frying has me nervous now.....it could very well have just been a coincidence I guess. But, I did notice last night when I connect the marantz to TV with HDMI, that hum got significantly louder. So the TV connection or that cord itself is an issue itself at least

    I really have to start from scratch again and just take everything out of the damn room and figure it out. I thought I was almost there and then it came back. I did read cable is a culprit a lot of the time as well

    Circuit is a good point, thanks. I’ll figure out which outlets are on which circuits to test it. Even though I unplugged everything in the room, there may be other outlets on that circuit. God I hope my sons room (which used to be the garage) is not the same.....that will be a friggin nightmare!!!

    It is driving me nuts!!! Making me want to go back to my cheap Sony receiver and CD player and cheap speakers :(
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
  5. R. Totale

    R. Totale The Voice of Reason

    Location:
    Bi-Regional
    Used to be almost all the time. What happens if you have everything on happily listening to the hum and you unscrew the cable signal wire where it first enters (probably at the router)?
     
  6. mikedifr0923

    mikedifr0923 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey
    It actually hits a splitter first for tv and modem (which is probably even more of a problem). I had just disconnected it from the cable box and TV at first, never tried exactly what you said while humming. I will give it a shot though, thanks
     
  7. jea48

    jea48 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Midwest, USA
    You need to disconnect the CATV provider's coax cable from the input of the splitter for the test.

    Thing that puzzles me though you said none of your equipment has a 3 wire grounding type plug. Is that correct? For a typical ground loop you need an entrance from one earth ground to an exit of another earth ground where a difference of potential, voltage, exists between to two earth grounds.

    .
     
  8. mikedifr0923

    mikedifr0923 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey
    I meant none except the phono pre has a screw or connection on the back to connect a ground wire. As far as the 3 prong plug, the phono pre does. The marantz definitely does not. I can’t remember on the hafler and the Oppo.

    The tv and the playStations are two prong.
     
  9. jea48

    jea48 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Midwest, USA
    Phono preamp does... Unplug the phono preamp from the wall power outlet, check for him.

    Hum gone ?
     
  10. mikedifr0923

    mikedifr0923 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey
    At first yes. He was out of the equation when the **** went down though. I haven’t plugged him back in yet. He’s a separate issue I believe
     
  11. pdxway

    pdxway Forum Resident

    How do you route your rca cable from Marantz to Hefler?

    I have similar type of setup, Pioneer receiver's preout to Parasound amps. I suddenly got loud hum issue a couple weeks ago. I solved it by routing my rca cables away from the body of my Pioneer and Parasound.

    Basically, I made changes to my setup a couple weeks ago and rerouted my rca cables during the adjustment. A pair of rca cable was routed right below the power supply of my Parasound. I thought that could be the issue and rerouted my rca cables away from the body of Parasound and also the Pioneer. The hum went away for me after that.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
  12. mikedifr0923

    mikedifr0923 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Interesting....the marantz is on a shelf above the hafler, diagonal to it at the moment so the cord is just laying on the back of the shelf really.

    You mean you routed it so it was away and not touching anything? I may be able to figure something out there.
     
  13. EasterEverywhere

    EasterEverywhere Forum Resident

    Location:
    Albuquerque

    Bad filter capacitors?
     
  14. pdxway

    pdxway Forum Resident

    Yeah, not touching anything and not near (on top or below) the power supply part of my equipments.
    My Pioneer is below and my amps are above. When I had the hum issue, my rca cables were not touching anything, but routed below the power supply part of one of my amps (also diagonal from my amp). I moved my rca cables far away from the equipments and the hum stopped.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
  15. mikedifr0923

    mikedifr0923 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Ok. I will check that out to. Thanks for the suggestion

    Hopefully I can figure it out this weekend. I just want to sit and listen to some damn music!
     
  16. jea48

    jea48 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Midwest, USA
    Does the hum you hear through both of your speakers sound like this?
    60Hz ground loop hum.


    IF the 60Hz hum is caused by a ground loop, when you unplugged the AC mains 3 prong plug from the power outlet for the phono preamp you broke the ground loop circuit. You should be able to plug the phono preamp back into the AC mains power outlet and break the ground loop circuit by disconnecting CATV provider's RG6 coax cable "F" connector from the input of the splitter.

    If the hum is caused by a ground loop on the electrical safety equipment ground, most likely, the problem is how the shield of the CATV provider's RG6 coax cable is earth grounded. If it is not electrically solidly connected to the main grounding system of your home's main electrical service a difference of potential, voltage, will then exist from the shield of the coax cable and that of the safety equipment ground at the wall outlet your phono preamp plugs into.

    The CATV provider's incoming RG6 coax cable Grounding Block.
    The Grounding Block is for lightning protection. The grounding block must be properly Bonded, connected, grounded, the main grounding system of the electrical service of your house. Failure to do so could cause damage to audio/video equipment the CATV provider's coax cable is connected in the event of a nearby lightning storm.

    The grounding block is usually found/mounted on the outside of the house at a point just before the coax cable enters the house. Sometimes it is found just inside the house after the entry of the coax from outside the house. Best place, and most common place, is outside though.

    Did the hum stop when you unplugged the phono preamp from the AC mains power?

    IF the hum is caused by a ground loop this will break the ground loop. There are cheaper isolators out there but IMO this is the best.

    Jensen VRD-1FF IsoMax Digital RF Isolator
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  17. mikedifr0923

    mikedifr0923 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Hmm, not sure. Thanks for posting. Might not have been but I have to listen again when I get home. I remember it being low in tone like that but a little different. I don’t remember any of that sound on top of the hum.

    When I initially unplugged the phono pre the hum stopped....and then I started getting more. I think I may have a few issues. The phono pre was in a different surge protector and outlet than the rest of the stuff

    Could be interference, static, i don’t know.
     
  18. mikedifr0923

    mikedifr0923 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Ok, so it’s not exactly that low. I don’t think it’s that. Sorry, this is all new to me, have never had these problems.

    When I just have Oppo/marantz/hafler/speaker it’s low volume, has somewhat of a low tone hiss but not like the above with what sounds like static over the top. I can’t hear it once I get like a foot away from the speaker. So I think in that situation it’s just amp noise. I can live with this if the not hurting anything (again I am paranoid because of the 1403 dying on me). This is how the pre sounded in my old set up that I lived with, couldn’t hear it from where I and listen.

    For the hell of it I plugged the hdmi from the marantz into the TV (the out from marantz into tv) and it got pretty loud, regardless of me changing volume. More of a buzz...And even if I turn the marantz off it’s still there. :shrug:

    I don’t know how to post anything on here but sent my buddy a voice memo and he described it as “sounds like you plugged a guitar cord into an amp but it was open at the other end” which I would agree with based on my vague memories of my brother playing guitar. (This was a new issue I found last night)

    I don’t know....Does that sound like anything to you? (Or anyone)

    After that I’ll just hold off until the weekend until I can take the room apart again
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  19. mikedifr0923

    mikedifr0923 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Another thought in addition to above....Do ground loops always sound exactly like that video and around the same volume? I am just sitting here thinking. Could it possibly be a loop that’s just giving off a different tone and it’s introduced into the system by either the cable or the TV, and I just hear it slightly when nothing is connected directly to the tv but as soon as I connect the marantz to the TV it gets much louder because that’s where it’s coming from?

    On another note....this just helps drive home the point that I want to separate my surround and 2.1 setups as soon as I can, but not an option at the moment unfortunately
     
  20. The FRiNgE

    The FRiNgE Forum Resident

    The 60 cycle hum will usually sound bassy like the sample posted by @jea48 but not always exactly the same. Hum may be associated with harmonics, a "buzzing" noise, sometimes squealing or hissing. I am 99%+ the noise you hear is 60 cycle hum.

    Listen for the pitch of the hum, not the tone of the hum. (could sound more like buzzing than a hum but it's still 60 cycle hum)
    The pitch is very close to the note B1, same pitch as a bass guitar "A" string played at the 2nd fret. (as not all bass guitars will sound exactly alike.. so disregard if your hum sounds a little different)

    When grounding your turntable, use a single grounding point to chassis, try the phono pre first or your pre-amp. Try reversing two prong plugs also. Disconnect all CATV to rule that out, simplify and isolate. Check your RCA interconnects.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  21. mikedifr0923

    mikedifr0923 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Thanks! I have never had an issue with the TT, I am fairly confident it isn't that. And everyone I spoke with online that had it never needed to ground it to anything. Right now that and the phono pre are completely out of the equation anyway. When I added this new phono pre I started getting some noise, but like I with the oppo/marantz/haffler, it was low enough to where I needed to put my ears up to the speakers

    My next two steps are going to be remove the cable completely like you said and then check my hdmi cords. The RCAs are all new and shielded blu jeans cables. I will swap them around to be sure, but I hope it isn't them. Seems like to me at least one of my problems must be tv/cable related.

    Quick question, so if the noise is low enough to where I need to put my ear to the speaker to hear it and once I am a foot away I can't hear anything, that would of likely just been equipment noise, right? Would a ground loop present itself like that? If not, is that something I have to worry about doing any damage over time?
     
  22. jea48

    jea48 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Midwest, USA
    Another example of 60Hz hum




    120Hz hum
    120 Hz Sine Wave Sound Frequency Tone
    Usually the sound caused by a bad electrolytic capacitor in the DC power supply of a piece of audio equipment.
     
  23. Twodawgzz

    Twodawgzz Well-Known Member

    I hope you did a search on "hum" before posting. There is already a ton of helpful info out there in many threads. Beats reinventing the wheel.
     
  24. mikedifr0923

    mikedifr0923 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey
    That’s exactly what I am getting with the hdmi connected to the marantz, thank you. I guess it still could be any number of issues.

    I doubt it’s bad power supply, the only thing that isn’t fairly new are the Oppo and the amp and they aren’t giving me much noise at all when connected.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  25. mikedifr0923

    mikedifr0923 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey
    I have been searching all over the web for a couple weeks. Sometimes situations are specific and need to be talked through with people.

    And it’s gone away and come back several times so I think I have multiple issues going on
     

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