Speaker Placement - Wide or Narrow?

Setting up speakers so that the image stays centered and focused with mono playback is necessary as a starting point. Once the speakers lose solid center imaging, everything else falls apart. But if the speakers can retain center imaging, a little more space between the speakers can be helpful. As long as the speakers can reproduce that 'phantom center' the size of the ensemble will not be an issue. Wonky microphone techniques will always be an issue and no amount of repositioning speakers is going to improve a bad stereo mix.

 

Gerald Ford signed the "Metric Conversion Act" in 1975. Ronald Reagon stopped the funding in 1982? At least the US tried. The British are on the way since 1965 but according to a survey in 2013 ca the half of the british are still preferring imperial measurements.

 

I did a complete room reconfiguration in order to do the angled approach and it is AWESOME!!! Soundstage is wider, stereo imaging is focused and no muddied sound. Aaahhhh...I can relax! It was a ton of work but I am so excited with my "new" sound, I even woke up early this morning in order to get a couple hours of TT time!

 

I agree with this statement excepting this: "Some people do not seem to hear 3D type imaging so placement for them might be less critical." If 3D imaging isn't important to some is one thing. Not hearing it would indicate a problem somewhere in their system and not their hearing, unless they had only one working ear of course.

 

I've always been concerned about placement in this apartment. It an odd shaped room with several openings to the sides and rears. I'm facing a 12' wall. The speakers are approximately 7' apart center to center. The speakers are about 30" from the rear and side walls. I sit about 9' from the speakers and they are toed in so as the center of the tweeters are pointed at the outer edge of my closest shoulder.

The left wall is approximately 16' then extends another 6' into a kitchen area. The rear wall at 16' is btrken by counter tops and cabinets and then extends another 6' to the fixed rear wall of the apartment. The right wall extends from the front wall 8' (it's an Arcadia door with blinds covering it. The right wall then opens into another are extending 10' x 8' with is at the same distance as the kitchen area. There is a small enclosed room of about 8' x 6' that fills the corner over my back right shoulder.

So what kind of recommendations would you make for speaker placement in a room whose rear wall has cabinets and counter 6' in front of it and the room is 'L' shaped with an open space of about 10' x 8'.

 

In Britain it is a compromise. We still have a pint of beer, miles per hour, and miles when we travel by car. Most food products we buy are only in metric units.

At school, the main measurements are metric but it seems children will still be required to learn some imperial units, and not just ones like miles and pints. There's probably a case for this if one studies history, say, but for the average citizen it seems unnecessary. Unfortunately there are people who prefer the old ways who have some say in this (probably the same people who wanted to keep the shilling, half a crown or a guinea). I think they're wrong but that's the way it is.

My room by the way is 14' x 386cm.

 

I likee your avatar.
My little sister uses "Weiryeyes" as her user id on several sites.

 

I used to assume that everybody hears soundstaging the same .I have a friend who says he can't hear image depth and layering on any system.He hears central imaging but not depth.I did not believe him but then when I got him to draw a perspective picture of what he hears it became obvious that he doesn't.
There is also the case of YamahaNS1000 speaker that I and several audiophile friends find have quite poor central image and very little image depth .Other people [even on the same system and room] do not agree and think they sound great.So who knows what they are hearing or listening for?

 

I think that's the problem with exact ideas. We do in fact all hear differently and whilst it is useful to follow general guidelines and specific ideas, in the end individuals have to decide what is best for them.

 

What is Rob's avatar? The fellow on the right looks a bit like Andrew Gold.

 

Yes but you would not want to be seen to be too much like those blasted Continental types.Next thing you might fancy garlic ,sauerkraut and take up wearing wooden shoes!

 

The fellow on the right is Bob Weir.

 

It's those wearing kilts that concern us more at the moment.

 

I believe this. But have never been able to achieve it in my room. Very likely because the speaker-room arrangement is asymmetrical. In order to have the speakers roughly equidistant from my ears and in a symmetrical relationship with my ears, one speaker is about 3 feet from its side wall and the other speaker is about 60 feet from its nearest full side wall! Or there could be other reasons. All I know is, mono recordings are spread out across the sound field rather than being centered in a point, and often strings seem to be on the left while brass is on the right. (Trust me, I know the recordings are true mono because they sound true mono on headphones.) I wish I could solve this, but it's been true of all speakers I've had in this room.

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

 

If the speakers are set up in a more symmetrical relation relative to the room sounds will get into focus. Your stereo is set up in such a way as to be working against the room's acoustics.

 

It sounds like you are off to the side of a large room, correct? If so, is it possible to angle everything so listening position is facing the corner instead of the back wall? That way, if possible, you can arrange the speakers symmetrically with the rooms corner as their center point.

 

Are your speakers toe'd in to the listening position? Have you treated the first refection point on that close wall?

 

AP Virgo II's - 9 feet apart (9.5' off the front wall - 6' off the side walls). Ears ~6.5' from the tweeters.

 

Hi, smctigue,
it seems unlikely with all the speakers but did you check if the system is "in phase / out of phase"?

 

I have a similar setup, but not nearly that big. Left speaker is about 3.5' from the side wall, right speaker is about 15' from the right side wall. I treated the left side first reflecting point but still had a good center image without the treatments. Is there anything between your speakers? How far are they from the front wall? How far are you from the back wall?

If you move forward does the image change or become more focused?

 

Although I'm replying to just Khyl's post, I've appreciate the other suggestions, which sadly are all impossible/impractical. (I may just have to live with the imaging shortcomings.)

Re your question, Khyl, as I approach the speakers, the image definitely becomes more focused. If I'm standing only a couple feet in front of their center point, the whole mono sound field "floats" near the center point like it should, rather than being spread out with parts attached to either speaker. The speakers are only a couple feet from the wall behind them (again, a necessity), while my sitting position is several feet from the wall behind me.

 

Has anyone ever tried the method described here:

http://thehighfidelityreport.com/extreme-toe-in/

In a nutshell it suggests moving the speakers right up against the side walls, and toe them in at a 45 degree angle. Your listening position should be behind where the speakers cross. Supposedly it reveals a huge sweet spot. I've read that it's occasionally used at audio shows where the rooms are often less than ideal. I haven't tried it yet but I will when I move into a more appropriate room in the near future.

 

riddlemay - how far apart are your speakers?

I would try smctigue and Khyl's hint of some absorbant material on the '3 feet from the wall' speaker's wall. It may be that at your chair you are getting just the direct signal from your other speaker whilst the first one is direct plus wall reflections.

You could try a folded duvet, blanket or pillow at the point on the wall where the reflections emanate from to see if that makes a difference.

 

That report's suggestion does nothing for bass problems, only reflections off the side wall which are higher frequencies - above say 300Hz. There are also possible reflections off floor (dealt with by carpets mostly), ceilings (which in my 14' x 13' room I've never found a problem) and back wall, then front wall. Reflections off side walls may in fact be beneficial if they are equal on both sides (I don't have any side wall treatment for example).

Far better to use 'the thirds' or 'fifths' to help deal with bass response too:

http://www.barrydiamentaudio.com/monitoring.htm

By all means try it though. It may work for you.

 

All true, and this has been part of my hesitation. He of course is unusual that he actually dislikes room treatments, so this could very much be a case by case scenario. But, it doesn't cost a thing to try it!