Speaker re positioning it costs nothing!!!!

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by The Good Guy, Oct 6, 2014.

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  1. The Good Guy

    The Good Guy Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    UK
    Hello folks

    Once you have bitten the hifi bug , then it gets quite a head rush reading, listening & taking the investment to buy the gear.

    Unless you are really rich & buy all the components in one go or you have a friend you personally installs the equipment then all we are doing is chasing after the last component.

    Last week I bought some mains cables from Chord for my power amps . Surprised at improvement more depth, cleaner sound however it did introduce deeper bass which in my small UK square size room is a nightmare. When you start playing fast paced music a bit of room boom starts.

    Of course many many times I have repositioned the speakers when upgrading components but it always surprises me the improvement when I do so . Here's a thought you may have put your speakers in a position that wasn't suitable 2 or 3 upgrades back but now it is suitable.

    All I did was move them closer together & turn the speaker at a strict 45 degree angle toe in (normally it's not so harsh 25-30 degrees) . I always play the most bass heavy records when doing the test & listen for human voice to ensure it sounds natural . A little bit of furniture adjusting for room equilibrium helped as well. All this costs nothing!!!


    Feel free to comment regarding your system, tweaking , How you personally have your speakers room positioned room acoustics & your solutions (money or free)

    Thanks
     
    F1 Power likes this.
  2. bluemooze

    bluemooze Senior Member

    Location:
    Frenchtown NJ USA
    One of the best things you can do, with the greatest potential for improving listening enjoyment, for the least cost.
     
  3. jazz8588

    jazz8588 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sandbach, England
    I had a similar experience. Moved the speakers a bit further into the room. Aimed the drivers so they fired directly towards the listener, and adopted a near field listening position. Obviously depends on your speakers, room dimensions, floor type and a million other parameters. But it worked for me.
     
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  4. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    I just went through this exercise yesterday! A friend of mine with a lot of hifi experience ("Audiodon" from AudioKarma, for those of you who know him) came over yesterday and we spent some time playing around with speaker positioning in my room.

    Starting with what the Cardas Calculator recommended (which was VERY much in a nearfield position) for my tiny 9" x 12" room, we gradually moved the speakers back and forth along a diagonal axis (according to toe-in, aimed towards the listening position) until we found the best location.

    This has resulted a more spacious listening experience, with excellent imaging and dynamics and blend, and has fixed the rather headphone-like experience that the nearfield positioning had been rendering. Moving the speakers back a few inches and closer to the corners has also tamed the treble, reinforced the overall body, and brought everything better into focus.
     
  5. I agree that speaker positioning in crucial to good sound but don't obsess over it or it will drive you crazy. Trust me I know!
     
  6. konut

    konut Prodigious Member. Thank you.

    Location:
    Whatcom County, WA
    I have read that doing so would cost some their marriage. One of the reasons I have remained a bachelor.
     
    BrokenByAudio likes this.
  7. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    Nice topic! Repositioning can cost you though- possibly a slight injury depending on how heavy they are!

    Just reinforcing how critical proper positioning can be. For example in mobile audio SQ competition there are competitors that use laser pointers and mannequins to aim the tweeters with refinement.

    In the room setting once you define the positions for left to right as well as distance from the wall you can now adjust toe in angle as well. My speakers are very accurate and as such a little bright. A slight amount of toe-out does wonders.
    Another tip is to avoid (if possible) anything hard or reflective between the speakers and on the same plane. Example a wall unit or large television. The surfaces will reflect the polar response pattern of the speakers and create cancellations, blending and make the stage seem shallow.
    The best stage is often the most simple. At a very nice audio salon they have a wall where they place two speakers (only) for demonstration purposes. The speakers are placed about 3 feet from the wall and nothing is between the speakers. In addition, a thick theatre drapery covers the entire wall behind the speakers.
    Absolutely stunning the imagery and focus you can achieve like that.
     
    raferx likes this.
  8. mikaal

    mikaal Sociopathic Nice Guy

    Unfortunately as great as that sounds, I have a huge flat screen in between my speakers for a reason! the big theatre experience albeit in stereo not surround.
     
  9. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    A lot of folks get around this by draping a quilt over the TV. Not a perfect solution, but a decent compromise.
     
  10. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    It's better to find a partner who appreciates the same things that you do!
     
  11. timind

    timind phorum rezident

    My partner is much more important to me than proper speaker placement. That being said, a separate room for the stereo sure helps. She rarely steps foot in there.
     
    G E and utahusker like this.
  12. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    Yup, same here!
     
    G E and PROG U.K. like this.
  13. sgb

    sgb Senior Member

    Location:
    Baton Rouge
    For this very reason I opted to keep my audio and video separate. They are, in fact, in different rooms.
     
    The Good Guy likes this.
  14. House de Kris

    House de Kris VVell-known member

    Location:
    Texas
    After decades of using the same old tried-n-true setup, I moved to a new home and it was no longer possible to do the same. This forced trying something new. I opted for the Cardas setup mentioned earlier. Wow, glad I did. I had excellent lateral imaging before, but now I've added a nice sense of depth that I didn't have previously. Wish I did this earlier.

    Bolt the TV to the wall, and move the speakers out to the Cardas recommended positions. The TV will no longer be between the speakers, and you won't have to throw the quilt over it either.

    As with my comments to mikaal, move the speakers out into the room and you will no longer have to have two rooms for two seperate setups because of the TV between the speakers reason. You may still have other reasons, but this one will go away. Oh wait, I don't think I should have to, but I will add, "in my opinion."
     
  15. sgb

    sgb Senior Member

    Location:
    Baton Rouge
    Thanks, I know you mean well.

    Having been an audio tinkler since the mid-1960s (I surrendered my audiophile membership card more than a decade ago), I think it's safe for me to say, "Been there, done that." I appreciate your IMO BTW.
     
  16. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    I've found that removing anything that was between the speakers - even behind and up against the wall - interfered with imaging.
     
  17. tim185

    tim185 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Australia
    Bolt TV to wall behind speakers. No problem. Won't effect imaging that way. No more than the wall by itself existing there.

    If you do hear a difference covering it up I'm guessing your getting reflections from your bare or not properly treated rear wall. Which unless it's a good 10 feet or so away, that reflection off your front wall will be the least of your problems!
     
    jupiterboy likes this.
  18. LeeS

    LeeS Music Fan

    Location:
    Atlanta
    HominyRhodes likes this.
  19. mikaal

    mikaal Sociopathic Nice Guy

    Another problem exists in my case: there is a huge window behind the huge TV...so there goes the "bolt the TV to the wall" idea! However I may still have some leeway with moving the speakers into the room a few more inches. This will entail moving the lounge (my listening position) up against the rear wall.
     
  20. GreatTone

    GreatTone Forum Resident

    Location:
    Falls Church, VA
    I think it depends on the room. Mine is far from ideal...I experimented with varying degrees of toe-in with my B&W DM602s, until they were firing directly at me. The more I toed them in, the more the bass got trapped in the corners. Facing the speakers straight ahead yielded the biggest soundstage and got the bass out of the corners and into the listening position. But as I said, my room is a mess, sonically. But at least I got it sounding the best it can for now.
     
  21. 33na3rd

    33na3rd Forum Resident

    Location:
    SW Washington, USA
    Sometimes I forget the basics, especially when the same equipment has been sitting in the same location for a long time.

    I retubed some gear and the tonal balance changed. I waited a couple of days for the tubes to settle in, and still wasn't happy with the new tonal balance.
    I remembered this post, and changed the toe in of my speakers. Problem solved!

    The speakers weren't moved more than 3/8 of in inch, but it made a dramatic difference!

    I keep forgetting that small things can make a big difference!

    Thank you for reminding me!
     
    gregorya and The Good Guy like this.
  22. smctigue

    smctigue Forum Resident

    I just positioned a pair of Reference 3a De Capo's in our 21' x 24' basement using Barry Diament's suggestions with excellent results. Speaker fronts are 8 feet off of the front wall, 6 1/2' off of the side wall & 8 feet apart from each other. My ear to tweeter distance is a bit over 8'. No toe-in per manufactures suggestion.

    I've treated first reflection points on both the side walls and ceiling with OC 703 (2" side wall, 4" ceiling). Bass traps in the corners.

    Results have been excellent. Soundstage width and depth can be remarkable on recordings that capture it. Front wall vanishes.
     
  23. F1 Power

    F1 Power Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Sweden
    Nice topic

    Speaker placement and room treatment can be worth the same as an investment in more expensive gear.
    It took me about 3 months of daly listening to finely position my B&W Nautilus 801 properly.
    Cardas is based mostly on the golden ratio and it works. I used it as a starting point and then trimmed it to perfection.
    My speakers now stands 3,15m (10,3ft) in front of the front wall, and 1,82m (6ft) from the sidewalls and 3m (10ft) apart toed in firing directly at the sweet spot.
    Having a 58m2 (623sqft) room with non parallel side walls and sealing helps a lot.
    This creating almost a 180 degree soundstage both horizontally and vertically with a enormously deep sound stage.

    /F1
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2014
    The Good Guy likes this.
  24. Robert C

    Robert C Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    Just tried this, it works! :righton:
     
    action pact likes this.
  25. bhazen

    bhazen ANNOYING BEATLES FAN

    Location:
    Deepest suburbia
    THIS IS A MYTH!!!

    Speaker re-positioning is something I invented, and have patented. Cease and desist any moving of your speakers until you've gotten in touch with myself, or my legal counsel re: payment of a licensing fee.
     
    norman_frappe, zongo and HominyRhodes like this.
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