Speakers for Electrocompaniet NEMO amps?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by antonkk, Feb 12, 2012.

  1. antonkk

    antonkk Forum Resident

    Location:
    moscow
    Right now my NEMO's drive a pair of mind JBL 250 Ti's which are fine speakers and give me the big monumental sound I always wanted. Yet they are themselves a bit too monumental for my living room so I guess I'll have to let 'em go and replace them with a slightly less imposing floorstander. Not vintage this time, NEMOs wonderful neutral sense of detail also started the urge for a more refined modern Hi End speaker that will do my amps justice and at the same time will give me the weight and the size comparable to the one I'm allready used to with my JBLs. There are several obvious choices that I'm considering now:

    1. B&W 800 Diamond. I had 802D before (though sadly not with Nemo's) and liked a lot of things about them, especially their tweeter. The main drawback was their rather boxy sound (esp. bass), which as I read was corrected in the new series. Since NEMO amps were originally created to drive B&W 801 Nautilus (hence the name!) I though that the current 800 Diamond maybe the ticket.

    2. KEF 207/2. I know youtube is a dubious source for audiophile impressions but something tells me that they sound completely awesome with NEMOs!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsi1MJFx6pc

    3. Wilson Sasha.

    4. Revel Salon 2.

    What do you guys think? :wave:
     
  2. Wasatch

    Wasatch Forum Resident

    Location:
    Layton, Utah
    Checkout some Neat Audio, Marten, Rockport.
     
  3. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Location:
    Bay Area, U.S.A.
  4. KT88

    KT88 Forum Resident

    The Wilson Sasha is a resolving speaker with a warmer sound and a reasonable size. The Focal speaker technologies is where B&W copied their ideas to improve their woofers and their HF drivers in the latest 800 versions. The Focal Maestro Utopia is exceptional.

    For a much more affordable speaker that will really surprise you with its value and performance, check out the Tannoy Definition DC10T. For something a bit more over the top aesthetically, the Dimension TD12 has similar performance. These speakers offer both resolution and big, powerful bass response which is also detailed.
    -Bill
     
  5. head_unit

    head_unit Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA USA
    Hey, is this you? "JBL 250Ti meets ELECTROCOMPANIET"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkDHvvQjNF0

    I'm a speaker engineer, and had 250 Ti's in a lab for a long time. They are fine speakers, but products of their time, and I agree with your feeling that improvement is possible, particularly in the area of sound integration.

    If you tell us more about your room & layout and what kinds of music you like to listen to, that would be helpful.

    I'm also concerned about your "trading down" in size, given the large 15" woofer of the JBL-ported, if I recall correctly. Are you thinking of placing a subwoofer(s) somewhere in the room?

    I love how these look, and I'm sure they're well engineered, but haven't heard them yet
    http://www.vienna-acoustics.com/products/the_music/the_music.php

    These are more, but their big brother very well reviewed. And they come in RED if you want!
    http://www.focal.com/en/home-audio-loudspeakers/hifi-speakers/floorstanding-speakers/maestro-utopia.php

    Usher and others have gorgeous, well engineered products. That includes B&W and KEF.

    Ultimately, you are simply going to have to spend some time and energy to audition the speakers yourself.

    I'm also concerned about your "trading down" in size, given the large 15" woofer of the JBL-ported, if I recall correctly. Are you thinking of placing a subwoofer(s) somewhere in the room?

    If not, get at minimum twin 10" cones and even that may not be enough to match your JBLs. And consider that a well-done room EQ product and/or treatment as possible may be needed, since you have to position floorstanders mostly for mid/highs and the bass driver locations may not be the best.
     
  6. 5-String

    5-String Well-Known Member

    I have the 207/2 and they sound great with my Mac.

    Things that I like: amazing mid range clarity, I had some Quad 989 before and the Kef come very close to the electrostatic mid range purity of the Quad.
    Soundstage is also very faithful to the recording, actually the 207 are among the best speakers that I found that they recreate the recording space very accurately.
    Things that I don't like: they are triwire and good triwire cables are three times more expensive.
    Also they very sensitive to the sources, you have to make sure that you pair them with top of the line components.
     
  7. motorcitydave

    motorcitydave Enlightened Rogue

    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    Good idea. Also, the Tannoy Prestige series for a nice blend of vintage and modern. :cool:
     
  8. Claude

    Claude Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luxembourg
    I think a setup should be built starting with the speakers, i.e. find speakers that you like and then look for suitable amps, because the speakers have by far the greatest influence on the sound (together with the room acoustics of course).

    That being said, the Electrocompaniet amps sound neutral and are very powerful, so they should suit every speaker in your list.

    You should also check out the top Dynaudio speakers (Confidence C2 or C4, or Sapphire).
     
  9. antonkk

    antonkk Forum Resident

    Location:
    moscow

    I currently own the entire top of the line Electrocompaniet set up - EMC-1 UP CD player, 4.8 preamp and NEMOS. So I don't fear for the source. But how do you connect the KEFs without tri-wiring? I mean my amp allows the true bi-wiring but that's all.
     
  10. antonkk

    antonkk Forum Resident

    Location:
    moscow
    I always found Dynaudio's rather lean and harsh. Never heard them with Electrocompaniet though.
     
  11. antonkk

    antonkk Forum Resident

    Location:
    moscow
    I don't think that Tannoys are a good idea since the really good ones are huge (and that's the reason I sell my JBLs) plus they were not designed to be run my monster amps like NEMOs. I assume that the good match for me is a tough to drive speaker which was designed to be driven by a powerhouse s/t amp. Remember that NEMO deliver 600 wt at 8 Ohm, 1200 Wt at 4 and a mindblowing 2400 Wt at 2!!!
     
  12. antonkk

    antonkk Forum Resident

    Location:
    moscow
    No, it's not my system on that video. I haven't filmed mine but it's pictured below. As you can see the room is quite large (an open space 50 sq.m studio) but it was tons of windows on the left (and also behind the sofa) and the left speaker is very close to the window pane or if they are pushed more into the room next to the glass door to the balcony). I plan to buy the new heavy curtains to fix the glass problem. My taste in music are very broad - from pop country and disco to hard rock and metal so I need a neutral universal kind of speaker but also a full bodied one. I know that sacrificing the 14 inch woofers of my JBL will be hard but they are not perfect either - the bass is very good but it's not the tightest and since the speakers don't have spikes or stands it also has a slightly boxy sound. Something I definetely want to eliminate with modern speakers.

    Regarding Vienna Music - they are FANTASTIC - one of the best sounding speakers that I ever heard but from what I know they are usually driven by tubes and autoformer Macs. Could be a mismatch for double-down monster NEMOs.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. David.m

    David.m Active Member

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    I would be cautious about the B&Ws. Very recently I had loan of the EC4.8 pre & AW400 monos, IMO they didn't work with my 802Ds, the sound to me was fatiguing, harsh & bright compared with my Musical Fidelity A5pre/pwr (also had loan of an ASR Emitter which took the 802s to completely new level, I've ordered an Emitter II Exclusive with BPS).
    The Nemos might have a different sound but it may be relevant that they were developed pre the B&W diamond tweeter. Good luck:)
     
  14. antonkk

    antonkk Forum Resident

    Location:
    moscow
    But isn't the diamond tweeter is supposed to be a lot smoother than the one on Nautilus line? I had 802Ds and the highs were almost perfect with my Mac 6900 (which failed miserably to drive them otherwise)
     
  15. 5-String

    5-String Well-Known Member

    Simple, you can use a single wire plus jumpers. That's what I have done.

    The jumpers that came with the speakers were decent but I upgraded them with custom made Cardas which I found a much better choice.

    Originally I had them bi wired, cable going to woofers and mid and jumpers to the tweeters. After going back and forth between biwired and single wired I decided that I prefer single wired. So now my speaker cables go to mid and connect to bass and highs through jumpers.

    With the KEF you have these choices:
    a) Triwire
    b) Biwire+1 Jumper
    c) Single wire+2 jumpers.

    You have to experiment and decide which one you like best, but, in any case, the speakers sound amazing no matter what.

    Have you read Stereophile's review?

    http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/208kef
     
  16. tmsorosk

    tmsorosk Forum Resident

    Revel Salon's, Likely the best speakers on the planet. Haven't heard them sound bad yet.
     
  17. David.m

    David.m Active Member

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    I never had a proper listen to the Nautilus line & you are no doubt right about the diamond being smoother than their previous domes. I was really at a loss to explain why the EC combo was so harsh & fatiguing, from research beforehand I had expected them to be a good match with the 802Ds. I can only surmise that either the Nemos are very different to the AW400s or it's the diamond tweeter. You may get a different result if you can borrow a pair of the 800/802Diamonds.
     
  18. KT88

    KT88 Forum Resident

    Not those Tannoys. Check out the Definition DC10T. Way better, way more modern and compact.
    Tannoy DC10T
    -Bill
     
  19. antonkk

    antonkk Forum Resident

    Location:
    moscow
    They look cool but, how do I say it, probably a level below the speakers mentioned here like Wilson Sasha, Revel Salon, B&W 800, Vienna Music etc. Don't get me wrong they maybe the great speakers but I'm looking for a serious Hi End speaker that does my amps totall justice and can fill the big room. Something on the level of Canterbury (if we take the Tannoy line though I'm not considering them). Price is not that important for sure and I would love to pay less but I guess $20 000-$25 000 range is what I'm looking for with this one.
     
  20. KT88

    KT88 Forum Resident

    If you don't give them a listen, you'll never know what you are missing. They outperform many speakers costing much more. They also deliver what you asked for. You'll be amazed by the sound and build quality if you do find a pair to listen to.
    -Bill
     
  21. antonkk

    antonkk Forum Resident

    Location:
    moscow
    Well, you certainly intrigued me!:righton: I will look for a dealer tomorrow. I always wanted to like Tannoys simply because their look is so classic and I owned McIntosh amps for many years (and we all know that Macs and Tannoys are supposed to like each other). But frankly I'm yet to hear the Tannoys the way everybody describes them - every time I heard different Tannoys (from vintage Red Monitors to Canterbury) all I heard was a very boxy "radio" sound without any bass or highs which was comfortable but totally unrealistic. And each time the dealer told me that it's the amp or something. The last attempt that I made was auditioning Kingdom 12's at the seller's apartment and the result was sadly the same.
     
  22. KT88

    KT88 Forum Resident

    Yep, totally set-up wrong if they have no bass. The older speakers like the Reds and the newer versions with traditional cabinets styles like those in the Prestige Range do have a more colored sound and the boxes are not braced so well, so that adds to the coloration. They can have tremendous bass depth though so it does become a matter of what they are matched with and where they are placed.

    The modern designs however are completely different. The Dimension series is a sleek, modern style with extremely well braced cabinet and no parallel sides so the box has almost no coloration of its own. You can compare that to the design of the other speakers on your list and see that they all share that principle to offer that level of performance. The thing that separates the Tannoy design is the use of two very large drivers which results in very powerful bass output. The Kingdom series speaker should also be capable of that and so whatever was done in that apartment must have been a real tragedy.
    -Bill
     
  23. motorcitydave

    motorcitydave Enlightened Rogue

    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    You're saying that this model is better than the Prestige line? :confused:
     
  24. motorcitydave

    motorcitydave Enlightened Rogue

    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    Tannoys perform well with all types of amps, according to Tannoy themselves.

    Good luck with your search.
     
  25. KT88

    KT88 Forum Resident

    Technically, they have better performance. In the way things sound and the way things look, there are is of course plenty of room for interpretation. The Prestige series intentionally keeps the traditional cabinetry for aesthetic reasons and they do have a more nostalgic tone. Most of those models have a rich bass with a rolled-off top end and they can play plenty loud with little power. So they tend to be married with modestly powered tube amps although they can handle much more power and offer a more flat and extended response when they are. A very romantic sound and a huge soundstage can be summoned when using a 30-50w tube amp with a pair of Turnberry speakers for instance. The whole system of CD player, amp, and speakers can be around $7000 and be very sweet sounding but not exactly the highest of fidelity. It gets many things just right but other things not so well as there are quite a few trade-offs there.

    The modern Tannoy designs, such as the Dimension Range feature much lower distortion and much wider bandwidth. These are very accurate and have few drawbacks other than possibly having too heavy of a sound for smaller rooms. The HF response of these speakers reaches out effortlessly to 35khz and recreates a very natural sound. It helps them be much more tightly focused and still have that midrange warmth and bass weight that Tannoy is known for. By almost all accounts, the Tannoy sound is warmer than most, so hearing anyone describe the sound of a large set as not having bass weight is really quite surprising.
    -Bill
     

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