Speakers for Electrocompaniet NEMO amps?

I see. Thanks for explanation.

If there's a high end rolloff in the Prestige series (I didn't hear it,) isn't that "problem" taken care of by the addition of the supertweeter?

 

Exactly. The Tannoy Prestige loudspeakers all feature some form of adjustable crossover. The larger and more expensive models have more adjustment options than the others. This consists of HF level in the smaller models and includes both crossover frequency and slope in the more expensive models. That allows tailoring response to the room without moving the loudspeaker; a very useful set of controls. The speakers in this style typically start to roll-off highs at 15khz. Adding the supertweeter, which also includes crossover frequency and level controls for proper integration, allows the range to be extended out to 35khz. This has the unexpected effect of causing the bass to sound more nimble and detailed. It's a very interesting phenomenon.

So the addition of the supertweeter does add a new dimension in frequency response and resolution to the Tannoy Prestige speaker but it doesn't address the cabinet resonances. The Dimension and Definition series cabinets address this at length. They offer a higher fidelity output. So you can easily upgrade a Tannoy Prestige or even a classic Tannoy speaker model with the addition of the external supertweeter. That is an unusual benefit afforded by a manufacturer. You don't have to trade-in a set of the originals to have the performance improved with their modern advancement in HF bandwidth and you can continue to enjoy the beautiful cabinetry that you originally fell in love with.

For those that are starting from scratch and want a state of the art speaker system, the Definition and Dimension series provide a complete package. Part of the original design that makes them so well received is the amazingly good integration of the HF driver with the LF driver. The work is mainly done in the actual layout of the Dual Concentric driver itself. It provides a very even response and dispersion platform and the unique alignment allows for the most simple of crossover networks to be implemented, allowing very low noise, minimal phase distortion, and an unusually wide sweet spot. The crossover point is notably low for the Dual Concentric driver as well, below 2khz. That is very important as most speaker systems implement the crossover in the most critical frequencies of human hearing and thus create distortion where we are most sensitive to it. Tannoy avoided that in their design. So while no speaker is without flaws, the Dual Concentric design eliminates a few from the start. Getting a special, high performance version of the DC driver installed in a modern, low resonance enclosure provides for a much more high fidelity experience than what many vintage Tannoy fans might be aware of.
-Bill

 

Ok, thanks for the info. I never realized that the cheaper models you mentioned were more accurate. However, I do like the Prestige a lot, but I haven't compared them side by side to the Dimensions.

And for example, Tannoy rates the Canterbury SE as 28Hz - 22kHz -6dB

So I don't understand this 15kHz rolloff. Besides, the treble can be increased via the front panel.

 

I used Tannoy Glenairs (the 15" ones) for a year. When I first installed them on their original spikes/cones, they sounded overpowering with bloated bass. I then put the speakers on Symposium Fat Padz and the speakers became a lot better focused and the bass was just lovely.

Your speakers do not have any kind of vibration damping. No wonder they shake and rattle. You need to do what designers did not do in their time...

 

Right. sound pressure levels are rated in decibels or db and what the spec indicates is that the speakers output can be 6db lower at 22khz. Basically, 22khz -6db equates to perhaps a flat response (-0db) out to 15khz and then a gradual roll-off, say -1db at 16khz and then decreasing further to -3db at 18khz, etc.

The same can apply to the bass performance but in the opposite direction. This is because the scale of bandwidth is expanding, so any decrease is seen as a contraction or compression back inside that scale. In other words, 28hz -6db might also indicate that the speaker is -1db at 35hz and then down another 2db at 32hz, etc. That means that the speaker has "relatively flat" frequency extension from 35hz-16khz. Of course there are bumps and dips along the way from bottom to top as with any speaker system, it's a complex graph and not easy to express with just a couple of numbers along that line. What is interesting is that Tannoy does meet or exceed their specs regularly so you can trust the measurements they do provide. It's not like the BS published by so many receiver manufacturers trying to reach the 100wpc figure and pulling out every trick in the book to arrive at some way to publish that and yet only consistently deliver anywhere from 25-50wpc. For instance, I have seen some companies rate their tiny, and I mean tiny "subwoofers" down to 20hz, just because that's what they feel people want to read or expect to hear. the reality is quite different. For example, one company I recall advertised an 8" sub that was less than a foot cube and they rated it at maybe 500w and down to 20hz. Tannoy had at the same time a sub they rated at 350w with a 15" driver in a relatively huge enclosure. Now, someone was not exactly being forthcoming and it wasn't Tannoy...

The Tannoy Definition DC10T speakers are rated 30hz-35khz at -6db. So you can figure they will deliver about 36hz-28khz relatively flat. That's pretty impressive and it does so at 92db efficiency, so they probably have peaks around 105db or so. I used to have a set of the older version at home for a couple of years and I can tell you that they seriously rocked the house. The new versions here have much lower distortion and overall higher fidelity.
-Bill

 

Ok, cool. Thanks for all of that. So I take it the supertweeter is mandatory for the Prestige series.

 

Any other ideas, folks?

 

Not really. They sound very good as they come. Most owners do not have the supertweeters, perhaps due to cost reasons, perhaps due to liking them as they are. Many people buy the Tannoy Prestige speakers because they like the nostalgic look and romantic sound. Adding a supertweeter to make them more accurate just isn't always part of that equation. The nice thing though is that it is available, it is done correctly, and even comes with the same finish as the speakers themselves.

So it depends upon what resulting sound and aesthetic you want. If you want a cool, retro look with very high quality sound, although colored in a vintage correct fashion, then the top dog without finding room and cash for the Westminster, is the Canterbury as it includes the classic 15" driver. You might drive that with a sweet sounding tube amp of 6 - 60w and sans supertweeter to create a very sweet, full-range system. If on the other hand you want a similarly cool retro look but desire a tighter, cleaner sound with the highest resolution, then the Yorkminster and supertweeter is the ticket. You can then drive that with either top quality tube or solid state gear pushing them with 80 - 200w and you'll have an even wider bandwidth and more accurate sound. To skip the retro look and go modern, plus save some dough, then the Definition and or Dimension speakers include the supertweeter and control resonances much better.
-Bill

 

What about PMC?

http://www.pmc-speakers.com/

 

Ok, cool. Why the Yorkminster over the Canterbury for "tighter, cleaner sound with the highest resolution?" The tech is the same, and the Canterbury has more bass having the bigger woofer?

I hear what you're saying, but I personally prefer the Prestige line. Those Dimensions are very good, though, and a lot less money...

 

I dunno - heard them a few times and still not crazy about them (or ATC for that matter).

 

It's a pity Electrocompaniet's own speakers Nordic Tone are too small for my room and they are absolutely FANTASTIC. Could be perfect for 25-30 sq.m rooms. If they had a bigger cousins I would not even think about the perfect match for me NEMOs!

 

I guess we have to apologize to the Op for taking over his thread here, but here goes...

Both the Canterbury and the Yorkminster have about the same efficiency being 96db and 95db respectively. Both have the same crossovers. The difference is in the driver size and cabinet volumes. The Yorkminster has a 12" driver in nearly the same size enclosure as the Canterbury with its 15" unit. The large Tannoy drivers really need huge enclosures to produce deep bass. So the Yorkminster actually has reach down to 23hz, where the Canterbury "only" goes down to 28hz even with its larger driver. Further, the 12" driver in the Yorkminster has a lighter cone and so when it is not moving tons of air, it is faster still than the 15 and nearly as dynamic. The Canterbury by comparison has a weightier and more dynamic lower midrange and many fans, including a lot of Tannoy UK employees, love the Canterbury for that as well as its gorgeous cabinetry. But if you want the true high fidelity model, the Yorkminster sound is a bit more accurate with a deeper bass capability and a flatter overall response. Add the supertweeter and you further extend that range in the other direction as well.

By going with the Dimension, you get two 10" drivers in a much more inert cabinet. One of the drivers is a Dual Concentric and covers the full range as with the Prestige models and then the other unit is a dedicated bass driver to further the output down there in a much more slender cabinet. I think they are outrageously awesome myself. I wish I could afford a pair. The older version, the D700 pair that I had at home for a few years was really nice. I am not kidding, when I was moving those out of the den to take to the shop and sell, I thought my wife was going to cry! She was like, "why are you going to sell those?". They were one of the largest and nicest pairs that we have had there and the natural cherry finish was gorgeous. But, as I explained to her, that's what I do... and on they went.
-Bill

 

I sure will audition the Tannoy Dimensions mentioned above but right now my top contenders are:

B&W 800 Diamond



KEF 207/2



Wilson Sasha



Revel Salon 2



Vienna Music




Would love to hear you ideas about which one of those would be a better match and why. Maybe someone's experience. Yes, I know that system is better built around speakers but since I have a great pair of amps allready I have to move the other way around.

 

the Aerial 20T v2 would be on my short list, but there is no Aerial dealer in Russia. i would also check out the Vandersteen 5a as there is a dealer in Sankt Peterburg.

 

From the list, I fancy the Sasha and the Music the most. The build and size of the Sasha alone make it very attractive and it's lines and finish are like a fine automobile, so it looks great. It has a very nice sound, perhaps the best from Wilson yet, being more "whole" than many past designs that seemed to tick all of the "audiophile" boxes but never really converged into the whole needed to be a the "best" speaker. It's very interesting. The Music is pretty much the opposite of that in it being a softer and warmer take on what is likely also a very tonally accurate and expressive loudspeaker. I haven't heard that one but I have heard various models from all of these lines. Unfortunately in different systems and in different rooms. I would assume that will be the case for everyone who might comment though. Hearing all of those in one system is likely impossible for anyone but Putin.

One conspicuously missing contender from that list however is the new Focal Scala Utopia. What makes it most conspicuous is that several of the design aspects of the Focal Utopia concept have been utilized by these other companies. The general technologies in the Maestro speaker were all introduced by Focal in other Utopia designs before they were adopted by other makers. Most notably are the time alignment of the Sasha and the Music enclosures. Wilson has used Focal drivers many times. Then there is the beryllium tweeter and the composite glass/foam woofers as used by a couple of the makers. The Scala is the latest refinement of these technologies.
-Bill

 

Ok, thanks again for the info.

 

Yeah, I haven't seen Aerials in Moscow at least. Vandersteens are huge here and I owned several Vandersteen speakers (1,2 and 3) in the past and sure heard 5th. They are very good and extremely musical, no doubt about it but first of all the 5th were not made for powerful amps (they have active bass) like NEMOS and are better driven by tubes and secondly while I really like the Vandersteen sound I'm looking for something more punchy these days. Vandersteen never impressed me on metal for example and I like to blast some once in a while.

 

Than, Bill! I'll do my best to audition both Sasha and Focal's. But aren't Focals also easy to drive (which makes no sense with Nemos)? I thought that a tough to drive speaker will match perfectly with a monster doubling down amp while Focals (like Vienna) are usually paired with either tubes or autoformer Macs.

 

There's nothing wrong with mating a monster amp to higher efficiency speakers!

 

Sure but I don't think it's a good idea either since both were made to get hooked to a different kinda gear. I'm afraid the sound will be harsh and screaming. After all NEMOS particulary were designed to drive this awesome but sadly discontinued speaker.

 

A good speaker should sound good with different kinds of gear. That's my take.

801Ds? Yeah, those are good. Get those. But you'll have to hit the used market, obviously.

 

A little bit too fat for my current room and impossible to find used allready. Haven't seen a single pair of 801D lately anywhere. Hence the idea to get 800 Diamond which is slimmer and supposedly more advanced but with the same bass power.

 

Well, that sucks. Oh, I know, they're kinda scarce over here too. Good idea there.

 

Well, 800 Diamond certainly was the first idea that I had but not the only one. I also disagree with your assumption that all good components work great with each other. There is a reason why certain amps and speakers are designed that way and the above mentioned 801 are great speakers nobody drives them with even the best tubes since they demand a different kind of amp. Matching is the most important art in the whole Hi End hobby.