Star Wars Episode VII: The Spoilers Awaken

If you want narrative consistency and perfect logic, the "Star Wars" series ain't for you!

What are "Mary Sue accusations"?

 

Read this if you get time: No, Rey From 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' Is Not A Mary Sue »

 

True; I dig sci-fi, but I suppose I'm more of a "hard sci-fi" fan. But Star Wars is fine. "TFA" is fine. I enjoy it. It's easy to poke holes in it as it is with many films, and I think it's instructive sometimes to do so.

As for "Mary Sue", it's simply the debate raging since the film came out that Rey is a "Mary Sue" character. And she kinda is, whether the writers meant to do it or not. She has way too much ability way too quickly. Even for a popcorn flick/flash Gordon/space opera sort of thing, the quickness with which she is able to utilize her skills is comical. Even if we believe that the "force is strong" with her, and even if we believe she realizes this VERY quickly, how would she have been able to figure out that it specifically allows for people to respond to specific verbal commands, just as Kenobi did in the first film? The only use of the "force" she had seen up to that point was mind-reading. It's not the biggest leap of logic of all time to guess that mind-reading could translate to issuing verbal commands and essentially mind *control.* But her ten-second trial-and-error session could have been a little longer to be just a tad more realistic even within the "rules" of this universe.

 

I've read a lot of the pros and cons. I see points on both sides. Make no mistake, I loathe Max Landis. Total douche. His position on the "Mary Sue" issue is more adamant than mine would be, but it's one of few things that guy has ever said that I agree with.

I don't know if Rey is a "Mary Sue" by the most *strict*, original definition. Certainly, she's not a result of "fan fiction" of the sort the term was used to characterize, that being 70's Star Trek fanfic.

But she is a comically conveniently gifted character. I think a lot of it is just the genre. How many stories are about "The One." The gifted one, the prodigal one, the one everybody has been waiting for. It's a common trope. I think a lot of the "Mary Sue" stuff comes from that.

In the article above, a lot of it seems to basically say that Rey makes sense within the Star Wars universe, that it maintains internal logic. I don't really disagree with that. I think it strains even internal "Star Wars" logic at times. But I think as a *film*, it's just kind of lazy and kind of hack to have Rey figure so much out so quickly.

The article above also attempts to explain Rey picking up the Jedi mind trick by saying that Rey surely must have "heard about Jedi mind tricks", but this seems to pretty strongly contradict her belief up to that point that the Jedi were a "myth." That they couldn't even have a 30-second scene before anybody walks in where Rey talks to herself and deduced how to do the "trick" was a pretty lazy move.

I think some of that article makes some points worth pondering. A lot of it just seems like Star Wars fanboy-style straining credulity to defend things.

I don't think the committee doing "TFA" had a big meeting and decided that Rey should be a big fan self-insertion "Mary Sue" sort of thing. They just took the "chosen one" thing and through a mixture of writing and editing made it more extreme and less organic.

I'm not a huge Star Wars fan, but Luke frustratingly lightsabering that floaty ball thing in the first movie made the character more realistic *and* more interesting.

 

That's a new one for me as well. I had to look it up.

 

Rey has a hormonal imbalance. She's got Middie-clorons way far beyond the Skywalker Scale.

 

Actually, I took it as she believed in the Jedi but everyone else has always told her it was just a myth. So it was confirmation when she met Han Solo.

 

I don't recall the exact lines. Doesn't she say something like "Luke Skywalker? *I* thought he was a myth." I remember getting the impression that *she* specifically thought at the very least that Luke himself was a myth. Not sure about Jedi in general.

 

One thing I will say about Daisy Ridley, is that I thought she played the part really well. Better acting than we generally see in Star Wars movies.

 

Don't ya think it's because you-know-who isn't in charge anymore!

 

I think a good hunk of the "new" cast are probably all better actors than most of the "original" cast was (or is). There are probably numerous reasons for it, but I'm guessing one of the reasons Carrie Fisher wasn't in the film a ton is that her acting chops aren't super great. She's fine in the small part I suppose.

I also have to wonder about Hamill. He *has* to figure more prominently into the next part. While he does a great Joker voice for the Batman animated stuff, his acting is about on par with Fisher generally. Saw him not too long ago in one of those horrible cheapie things called "Air Collision" (with the Urkel dad, Reginald Veljohnson); this was done in the last few years, and Hamill wasn't outshining anybody even in that thing.

 

Partly. Ewan McGregor's a good actor, but the dialog he was given was a tad awkward at times, though he did the best with it he could.

 

I wasn't even aware of it until recently, but apparently some amount of SW fans have been calling for McGregor to get a "standalone" film; apparently one of few things the hardcore fans still like about the prequels.

While McGregor did interrupt his latte to do a quick voiceover for "TFA", he has in the past said some rather unflattering things about aspects of "Star Wars"; I'm not sure he'd go for it even with a totally new team working on it.

 

Agreed....but the direction and sometimes sterile scripts made a great many actors look worse than they were. With you-know-who out of the picture maybe things will improve for the next three trilogies....?

 

It's odd seeing Carrie Fisher in interviews these days. She's had work done on her teeth, so her pronunciations sound different to when she was younger. They seemed to disguise that a little bit in TFA.

 

I think so, or going by TFA. The acting in it wasn't anywhere near as wooden as the prequels anyway. Apparently, Episode 8 is going to be darker and weird, from what I read. Probably in a similar way to what The Empire Strikes Back was. Or maybe more so. But it'll be interesting to see where it goes. I don't think they can have a story as similar to The Empire Stikes Back with the next film, in the way TFA was to A New Hope.

 

We watched it last night on BD, and it definitely still sounds like she has cotton balls in her mouth or something. *But*, that's one thing I can't fault her for; I'm sure that's just how she sounds now. I've certainly found all of the "they look old!" comments people have made to be obvious and dumb. Kudos to Fisher for looking realistic, and I think she looks just fine and appropriate for her age. Same for Hamill. Even Ford doesn't look like he's had a ton of work done or anything, though I suspect he may dye his white/grey hair a darker shade of grey, which even if true is hardly a huge deal.

 

Indeed. It's a bit ridiculous when people have a pop at actors for looking older.

 

Did they change the ending for the bluray? Leia now hugs chewie and the scene of her pushing past him is now just Daisy and Leia alone...

 

Rey being a Kenobi and a standalone Kenobi film with McGregor would be satisfying.

Speaking of which, the second anthology film is going to be about a young Han Solo, and it looks like Disney have completely ignored the idea of this guy in the below video - Anthony Ingruber - playing him. Star Wars fans have brought up his name repeatedly and even created a petition for him to play the part, and articles have also been written saying he'd be ideal to play a young Han. I think so too (or at least, far better than any of the other actors names that have been mentioned).

 

Regarding the wooden acting in the prequels, Natalie Portman was criticized for her performance and later won an Oscar for Black Swan. In The Empire Strikes Back, the three principles came across as very charming and charismatic compared to their performances a mere three years later in Return of the Jedi. These wooden performances are more likely due the writing and directing than the actors' skills. A great actor can only do so much with the material they're given.

 

The next time you see Revenge Of The Sith (and if you haven't really noticed before, that is), watch Anakin's reaction when he is told by Padme that she's pregnant. Hayden Christensen's acting stands out on that part, it's actually really good.

 

Did they seriously fix this for video release? Abrams has expressed regret for a "blocking" mistake on the scene.

 

He's awful.