Star Wars: Episode VIII (The Last Jedi) - SPOILERS POSSIBLE*

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by MLutthans, Nov 10, 2015.

  1. Takehaniyasubiko

    Takehaniyasubiko Forum Resident

    Location:
    Poland
    A disgrace. I was disappointed by everything in this movie. There's no magic and no fun in it. What a way to spend $200 million. Even more shocking how much this crap earned. I don't understand this world anymore.
     
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  2. Encuentro

    Encuentro Forum Resident

    And Yoda.
     
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  3. Bobby Boogaloo

    Bobby Boogaloo Heavy on the grease please

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic USA
    Yep. It's the whole enchilada for finally getting "it" as a jedi and has been pretty consistent in the whole series. I had to do a little background reading before I really understood what that was about.
     
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  4. bferr1

    bferr1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA
    I had a thought when I was driving to work yesterday that the Caretaker Village scene (a.k.a. Luke's third lesson, even though Rian says it isn't) shouldn't have been cut from the film.

    As it plays out, that scene drives a very clear wedge between Luke and Rey. She rejects his "cute" lesson and reminds him that people are actually dying. The next sequence would have been Luke sitting on the meditation stone, reconnecting with the Force, reaching out to Leia and learning of her coma, and basically confirming that Rey was right. But it was Rey that motivated him to do that, which is something we lost when the Caretaker Village scene was cut.

    We next see Rey in a kind of foul mood, walking with some attitude as she picks up the Force conversation again with Ben and confronts him about killing his father. The Caretaker Village sequence would have provided context for Rey's attitude in that scene, too. She is then drawn to the Mirror Cave, confronts the question about her parentage that's been haunting her, and is compelled to seek solace NOT in Luke but in Ben, because of the wedge that the Caretaker Village sequence would have placed between them. That wedge makes it easier for Rey to believe Ben's version of the backstory at the Jedi Academy, which leads Rey to confront Luke. I wonder if Luke was actually considering joining Rey and returning with her at this point, but changed his mind when he learned that he had driven Rey towards Ben-- the Jedi Academy backstory kind of repeating itself.

    Removing that one sequence kind of affected context and motivation for a lot that follows...
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
  5. Encuentro

    Encuentro Forum Resident

    Good point. I agree. This scene, along with the Luke mourning for Han scene, should have been left in, and some of the Canto Bight stuff, particularly the fathier chase, should have been removed. I’m sure that some of the folks at originaltrilogy.com are working on versions that reinsert these deleted scenes and trim some of the Canto Bight stuff.
     
  6. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    To me, the backbone of the movie is Luke, Rey and Ben/Kylo Ren. I don't think any of that stuff should have been cut. To me, most of that Fathier chase should have gone.

    The little Han mourning beat...Yeah we sorta got a similar beat when Luke went on board the Falcon to brood, but that beat would have gone a long way to show the audience the turmoil Luke is going through by choosing not to rush in to the thick of the fight. You see the scene where he acts like a dick to Rey where he gives the " Laser Sword" speech then you see him break down away from view and you realize in that moment that to a certain extent even he doubts his decision to leave everything behind. It's a subtle moment ,but it says more about Luke's state of mind than other scenes.

    Also agree about " the third lesson". It clearly shows that Luke still is the idealist at heart and that he sees his younger self in Rey and tells her she is the kind of person the Galaxy needs and not someone beholden to an archaic code. Plus it gives you a glimpse that he still has a sense of humor and a michevous streak in him much like his old master Yoda.

    Both give insights into Luke's character and point of view. Maybe that could have helped some in the audience come to terms with who Luke was now as opposed to who he was in Return of the Jedi and how he got from point A to B.
     
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  7. Laservampire

    Laservampire (╯°□°)╯︵ ןıo ǝʞɐus

    I really dislike how people get labelled as "butthurt star wars nerds" for not liking The Last Jedi.

    If your only previous Star Wars experience was seeing Ep 7 alone, you'd come out of the cinema wondering why the next film in the series had no plot.

    It's just a straight up crappy movie, let alone a crappy Star Wars movie.

    (EDIT: oh jesus, I just remembered the unending motivational speeches. I'd blocked that from my mind...)
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
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  8. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    One script kiddie could move that rating up or down 10% in a week. It's completely meaningless.
     
  9. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    Luke was always a whiny b:-plnktn-:tch. I'm not surprised he fell apart after helping turn Ben to the Dark Side and getting all of his students killed. Whoops!
     
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  10. NettleBed

    NettleBed Forum Resident

    Location:
    new york city
    I'm a Star Wars fan but hardly a fan-boy. I've seen all the films in the theater and while I did play with some of the action figures as a kid, that's where my interest in Star Wars as anything other than a franchise of popcorn movies ends. I know next to nothing about Star Wars expanded universe stuff. I never read any of those novels. I never played a Star Wars video game. However, I love films, do like space opera type stuff when done well, and really liked the first two-and-a-half Star Wars movies.

    That said, I thought The Last Jedi was garbage. Many of the people who are killing the film on the forums are non butthurt star wars nerds who just wanted a good Star Wars film, who were open to seeing it made by someone not named George Lucas... and who were pretty disappointed by what they got with Last Jedi.
     
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  11. delmonaco

    delmonaco Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sofia, Bulgaria
    I’m not sure how Rotten Tomatoes rating works exactly, but it’s a fact that the audience score is almost twice lower compared to the critics score (47 against 91%). I don’t know if there’s any other movie with such a big difference in ratings.

    Also, currently TLJ is the third weakest SW movie according to the IMBD rating (only episodes 1 and 2 are rated lower), and it’s also the worst of all episodes according to Metacritic user rating.

    I don’t believe that there’s such a vast and persistent conspiracy the audience rating to be kept as low as possible - what's the point? And why there are only "kiddies" that move the rating down? Why there are not enough enthusiastic fans to move it up?
     
  12. Jim B.

    Jim B. Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    A group of racists try to manipulate the Black Panther score, and no doubt as TLJ has the cheek to feature leading roles for women and black and Asian people then I wouldn't be surprised if that was enough to irk those bone heads. You'll have to ask those pathetic cretins why they do such a thing? Perhaps they just want films with white male leads?
     
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  13. delmonaco

    delmonaco Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sofia, Bulgaria
    But TFA and Rogue One were not different in this regard, why there's no such a conspiracy about them?
     
  14. Jim B.

    Jim B. Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    I'm not the person you should be asking.
     
  15. Jim B.

    Jim B. Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Angry alt-right fanboys target 'Black Panther,' lose badly

    "That's certainly true of the group behind the botched attempted to tank Black Panther on Rotten Tomatoes. In 2017, the trolls managed to get The Last Jedi's Rotten Tomatoes score down to 56 percent by mobilizing an effort to review the film badly among like-minded folks on social media. They also admitted on their Facebook page that they were using bots to swarm the site."
     
  16. delmonaco

    delmonaco Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sofia, Bulgaria
    I don't know...The reality is, that today TLJ fallen already to 47 percent audience rating, while Black Panther is 79 % audience rating vs. 97 % critics (which is quite normal for many films). I personally don't understand why of all movies TLJ have to be the main target of all racists and misogynists in the world, and honestly, I don't buy this argument as the main reason for the low audience score.
     
  17. Jim B.

    Jim B. Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    You sound like the Russian foreign minister....the facts are there, they admitted they did it. What more proof do you need?
     
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  18. delmonaco

    delmonaco Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sofia, Bulgaria
    I start thinking that you are overloaded with certain political issues that greatly influence your evaluation of this movie. It's quite ridiculous to believe that all people in the world that doesn't share some of yours social agenda and beliefs have mobilized all their resources and power to criticize this particular Star Wars episode. I can't even guess what you mean by mentioning the Russian foreign minister in the context of our discussion...possibly it's a joke that only someone with very deep foreign affairs knowledge could get.
     
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  19. marblesmike

    marblesmike Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    The proof is that there are plenty of people who didn't like the movie for reasons other than "OMG they hate whites!" people. Yes, those kind of trolls may have helped push the score down, but to act like they're the sole reason why audience scores were down is ignoring reality to fit your narrative.

    Also, you don't think the corporate interests that want the movie to do well don't employ internet "agents" or "bots" to help fluff audience reactions/scores, especially on social media?
     
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  20. CraigBic

    CraigBic Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Is there? Because I had a quick scan of the "Reviews" and it seemed to me that people going on about SJWs and Political Correctness and all sorts of right wing nonsense wasn't exactly uncommon amongst the self-righteous 1/2 star to 1 star reviews. One can easily concede to the idea that not everyone loved or even liked the movie but this is the sort of behaviour that could only come from a deliberate campaign to affect the score of the movie. The reviews I saw also ranged from gibberish to needlessly verbose. You're responses seem to be to turn around and invent your own conspiracy theories or dismiss the evidence in front of your faces, there is an Adam Ruins Everything episode which covers this. But I guess I'm probably an agent or a bot right? Because I shock of horrors liked the movie. If you want to stick your fingers in your ears an scream "La la la la la everyone hated Star Wars!!!" because Luke didn't have a fun time cutting things with a laser sword then fine but that rotten tomatoes score doesn't prove that you aren't in the minority because you know what? I'd say most people who liked it really don't care if the audience score agrees with them.
     
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  21. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    To believe the talk of the Last Jedi as being divisive is just because of Russian bots or fake news, whatever, is ignoring the reality, which is, yes the movie has divided the fandom. However, that does not mean the audience score on RT isn't being manipulated by bots and fake accounts and trolls to drive down the numbers.

    As always, the truth is somewhere in the middle. The legit audience score is probably lower than the critics score, but not the 90s/40sdichotomy. If I had to guess it's closer to a 90 critics /65 audience score. A significant divide, but not a majority of viewers slamming it.
     
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  22. Sondek

    Sondek Forum Resident

    In fairness one doesn't have to be right wing to dislike SJWs, or OTT political correctness. I'm center-left myself, and know plenty of others on the left who take issue with the counter-productive methods of SJWs.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
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  23. CraigBic

    CraigBic Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Zealand
    I don't want to deviate too far off topic so I'll try to swing this back into Star Wars at the end. I dislike that stuff too but I don't try to weave it into everything every time I open my mouth or find something I don't like. The attitude seems to be that because there is a lead female it could only have been done for SJW reasons similarly just about all of the rest of the new cast. I remember one person back when they were complaining about The Force Awakens saying that Rey didn't have a character arc because she can fight well at the beginning of the movie and at the end of the movie. When I tried to explain that her character arc was more of an internal journey he was having none of it. It's a bit like casting Jodie Whittaker a fan or doctor who and an actor whom the new show runner had worked with extensively leading up him getting the Doctor Who gig but no it must be because of SJWs that this woman was cast.
    Bill Maher has done some very good editorials on the subject of political correctness going too far etc but a lot of this comes off as scapegoating. Kathleen Kennedy is I believe the highest grossing producer in Hollywood but apparently she's this raging feminist who for some reason hasn't hired a whole lot of female directors, I don't know if I'm wrong about that but there is a video of her somewhere getting annoyed at a feminist for not putting a woman in charge of a Star Wars movie.
     
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  24. Tony-A

    Tony-A Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tampa USA
    Me being one of them.

    Went to see this movie the family, my wife, son and daughter. My son is 22 years old and is very much into the whole Star War world. My daughter is a movie lover and has seen all the Star Wars movie, but is not invested as much as my son. My wife likes a good movie. As we were stepping out of the theater ground, I was completely disappointed and didn’t feel commenting on the disaster (TLJ movie) we just saw. But, as we took a few steps toward the parking lot, I was amazed to hear all three of them at the same time, express such of dislike for the movie in general (lots of folks already have brought up those plots hole). We are of mixed race, gender and age, but we all had problems with the movie. Rotten Tomato might had 47% unfavorable reviews, but in my household it was 0% favorable.

    Peace,
    Tony
     
  25. marblesmike

    marblesmike Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    I'm overreacting? I thought the movie was "just okay" and overall a disappointment, so I must be an "alt-right" troll, right? Funny how nowadays the evil "alt-right" gets blamed whenever things don't go the way a vocal majority want them to. Where have we seen this before?

    I'm glad you like it, but you certainly seem to have issues with those that don't like it and are writing them all off in one big generalization. Again, where have we seen this before recently?

    Well, anecdotally I can tell you that myself, my fiance, my dad, and 75% of my friends/acquaintaces had thoughts that ranged from "meh, it was okay" to "it was stupid." None of us are not "alt-right" trolls. Funny how there has to be a straw man to support the existence opposing viewpoints (on both sides).

    And I'm turning this around to conspiracy theories? I'm stating a fact that large corporations have financial interests and seek protect them via social media, which may include paid "representatives" tweeting reviews of support or even "bots." So you're denying that corporations engage in such practices?
     
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