Star Wars: Episode VIII (The Last Jedi) - SPOILERS POSSIBLE*

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by MLutthans, Nov 10, 2015.

  1. Tony-A

    Tony-A Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tampa USA
    I can just hope we keep it civil. Don’t want to see the thread being closed due to political reasons. I didn’t liked the movie, but I respect the ones that enjoyed it, and their point of view.

    Peace,
    Tony
     
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  2. CraigBic

    CraigBic Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Zealand
    I'll just ignore all that other BS and address this one, Star Wars is a billion dollar movie all three currently released movies are billion dollar movies they sell themselves if you think that they need to pay people to be nice about the movie then you are crazy to say the least and if they are paying people then where the hell is my damn check Disney!? This isn't the oil industry, they don't some criminal actions they need to sweep under the rug they make a movie and people see it Lucasfilm is a movie studio they're filmmakers Kathleen Kennedy started out as Steven Spielberg's assistant and to top it off you have 0 proof. Nothing, nada, zip.

    It would be nice if we could actually talk about the movie for once. Or at least the bonus features on the Blu-ray disc.
     
  3. razerx

    razerx Who me?

    Location:
    The East
    I was a young kid when the original Star Wars movie came out (I don't want to call it episode IV) and have always thought Luke was/is the main character of this franchise so I thought if they are going to use Luke then let him have his last hurrah. There is a huge piece of the story missing with this Last Jedi movie - Why was Luke on the island and why has he become a grumpy old man? Ok the movie sort of mentioned that all too briefly. Seems the current series brought back the original characters just to kill them off. Also the action sequence at the casino was more action for action sake than contributing to the story.
     
  4. Jim B.

    Jim B. Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Why are you twisting things? It's beyond me!

    I never said the low score was down to just those right wing groups. I can see that there was a minority of decent normal people who didn't like the film, which is fine, that is just like EVERY film EVER made. It's art. It's subjective. There is no right answer.

    But the RT score is not to be trusted, and I was just explaining why and the reason behind that. Nothing more. Please don't read hidden messages into posts that don't contain them.

    The IMDB score is currently 7.4 from a larger sample size (380,000). That seems more in line with what I think the truth is. I think the vast majority of people were fine with the movie and don't understand all this fuss, some people really liked it and some people really hated it. But a 7.4 average score puts the last group in a small minority.

    Final point I think which needs to be made - social media today amplifies and exaggerates opinions. Read some things and you would believe everyone hates TLJ. That's far from the truth but if you have a small vocal group on social media you can get it to seem that way.

    Subjective but to me it seems that those that hate the film seem much more determined and almost on a mission to 'prove' that it's bad. You see that in posts on this board - if someone likes it they say 'I Liked it' but if someone didn't they don't say 'I didn't like it' but 'It's awful/trash/whatever'. That may seem minor semantics but it's actually quite telling.
     
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  5. Jim B.

    Jim B. Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Because he let his sisters kid go to the dark side and murder all his students? Seems pretty clear to me.

    And he, imo, had a wonderful hurrah at the end, doing the right wing at the cost of his 'life' to save the others. Just like Ben in the first film.
     
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  6. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    Well I don't think it was Abrams and Kennedy's intention to kill off the OT characters, it's just how it worked out. The only one who was a dead man from the start was Han. It was apparently one of the things in Lucas' treatments for Episode VII and probably the only way they could coax Harrison Ford to return, because Hamill wasn't for sure coming back until Harrison signed on, which sort of forced his hand.According to Mark, The only one to sign on from the start was Carrie.

    I'll sort of give you Luke, but I still think he'll be back in IX as a force apparition,so he isn't gone. Of course Carrie died suddenly and she was supposed to be a big focus of IX.
     
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  7. Jim B.

    Jim B. Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    There was no way they were ever going to be a central part of these films, maybe if they had made them 20 years ago instead of the prequels, but sadly they were just too old. I mean I can't remember seeing Mark or Carrie in anything for years, maybe Jay and Silent Bob Strike back (and that was just cameos). Hammill did great voice actor but neither had acted much of late, and Ford is getting on as well. I'm actually surprised just how much screen time all three did eventually get.
     
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  8. CraigBic

    CraigBic Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Zealand
    It was probably the best way to do it in the end though anyway, instead of trying to cram all these characters into the movie they pick a 1 of the 3 to represent the original trilogy. Unfortunately Carrie died so it's probably not going to work out that way but it would have been quite a good for Episode 9 to be Leia's movie. Maybe it still will be in some way, I will say this though Harrison is going to do another Indiana Jones film next year I think so the guy must still be in reasonable shape.
     
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  9. Michael Rose

    Michael Rose Forum Resident

    Location:
    Davie,Fl
    or a droid.
     
  10. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    The best scenario would have been Harrison wanting to continue as Han beyond TFA with his character dying a heroic death in IX, but we know Harrison grew more and more disenchanted with Star Wars over the years.
     
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  11. Jim B.

    Jim B. Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Can't fault him in Blade Runner 2049 either. But he is 75 now and he had a love/hate relationship with SW so he was never going to have a key role in all three films, he came back only on the condition they killed him off.

    I'd imagine, if they have any sense, that any Indiana Jones reboot has him passing on the mantle to someone new and him playing the 'Sean Connery' role in the film. Let's just hope he doesn't pass it on to a young black female 'India Jones' or the internet will have a meltdown ;)
     
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  12. The Zodiac

    The Zodiac God's Lonely Man

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  13. marblesmike

    marblesmike Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Typical--you lost the argument, so you refuse to engage and "ignore all that other BS..." What BS are you ignoring?

    I didn't say that everyone who likes the movie is a paid corporate troll. All I suggested is that corporations hire people to prop up their products on social media (hello--advertising?) and that "alt-right trolls" aren't the only ones who use those kinds of social media tactics.

    "billion dollar movies they sell themselves"--really? So Disney doesn't engage in any kind of ADVERTISING? You are aware that there is advertising on social media that look like good reviews or user posts, right?
     
  14. CraigBic

    CraigBic Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Prove it, everything else you've said is just hyperbolic nonsense not worth responding to. It suggests foaming at the mouth rather then a serious discussion.

    They advertise on social media with things like fan pages a Star Wars twitter account, the filmmakers/actors have their own twitter accounts what you are suggesting is that they can't find real Star Wars fans who like the movie so they have to fake them by paying people to pretend they like the movie.

    Is trying to get his son back on the right path not heroic?
     
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  15. Matthew

    Matthew Forum Resident

    Location:
    Jammin' at Sun
    I've seen the movie a few times now and I think I like it better than the first time out.

    Hamill did an excellent job and I hope to see more of him in Episode 9.

    On that front; it seems to me a good solution to move the story forward and beyond Carrie's death is to jump a few years down the road; like 5-10 years or something.

    The "spark" has "lit the fire" and the "rebellion" is now reborn. Leia has died a natural death in the meantime, Po has taken her place as the leader of the rebels. Perhaps we see a broken Ben Solo loosing his cool over her grave; as he's fully embraced the mantle of "Supreme Leader."

    Luke is now guiding Rey as her Obi Wan and in the end she restores the Jedi temple that Luke began; with the new generation of Jedi-in-training.
     
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  16. coffeetime

    coffeetime Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lancs, UK
    Male, mid 40s married, parent and white here. Maybe because of where I live (UK) or I'm paying insufficient attention but I'm completely failing to see the whole gender politics in TFA/TLJ. Rewatched TLJ for the third time yesterday, after my first in an over-warm midnight showing at the cinema and a second viewing the day after with my family. The film is flawed but still stands up and is thoroughly enjoyable.

    Along with certain factions of the online gaming community (and the venn diagram those determined to see films though some sort of social engineering prism has a heavy overlap), its getting to be embarrassing having the same pastimes & interest as some of these people., even when I choose not to interact with them.

    I can understand people not liking any given film. Expending effort on organising huge online campaigns to pull down a rating that was wholly arbitrary in the first place in a bid to dissuade others from seeing it and the producers from making any more? ‘Don’t you know that you can count me out

    And I think the thread is done, at least for me. Thank God social media and score aggregators didn't exists back in 80s and early 90s. Can't think how many films would be ruined by people seeing them as enforced social conditioning and pouring vast efforts into making the rest of us aware of it. TLJ is *space opera* FFS.

    Maybe Ben Affleck was right in Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back. The internet really is just for people just to bitch about movies and share pornography.
     
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  17. marblesmike

    marblesmike Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Foaming at the mouth? Hyperbolic nonsense? You're just a troll, no better than the "bots" you speak of because you're chastising someone like me for not liking a movie you like and telling me I'm full of it for suggesting that corporations (not just "alt-right trolls") employ a variety of social media techniques for advertising purposes, including bots.

    Proof that corps use bots to sway public opinion:
    Do Evil - The Business Of Social Media Bots
    Social networks are about to let in the bots

    50 Innovative Ways Brands Use Chatbots - TOPBOTS
    Bots Infiltrate Social Networks, Push Ideas, Products
    10 Brands Using Facebook Messenger Bots for Business

    Want more?
     
  18. NightGoatToCairo

    NightGoatToCairo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hampshire, UK
    OK, so I saw this back in December at the cinema. I thought it was quite good at the time. I picked it up on Blu-ray last week and settled down to watch it yesterday evening. After struggling to enjoy it at all the second time around I switched it off after 25 minutes. I considered trying again this evening but couldn't think of another sequence or part of the movie I was really looking forward to seeing again:shrug:
     
  19. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    It was for sure. I wasn't saying otherwise. I was just saying that I wish Harrison wanted to hang around for VIII and give him a similar moment in IX rather than leaving in VII and I was just lamenting that he came and left so early in this trilogy.

    If anything, we could have least gotten one final scene with Han, Luke and Leia had his character survived VII. It's one of the few criticisms of the Sequel trilogy I share with the detractors. Imagine how even more powerful the ending of VIII would have been if Han was there with Leia and the Resistance to witness Luke's last stand?

    Heck I just had the thought that the Canto Bight plot could have been Finn ,and Han. DJ could have been one of Han's old frenemies from his pre rebellion days who ends up betraying both of them.

    Come to think of it, Han was probably the one OT character who could have had a rich story arc without completely overshadowing Rey and the rest of our new gang and they could have definitely played more with the Father/Son angle with Kylo over the course of the trilogy. Alas though, he wanted out,and that's what he got.
     
  20. The Zodiac

    The Zodiac God's Lonely Man


    We watch the Disney channel and Disney JR a lot because of my daughter and I can tell you that they absolutely HAMMER you over the head with their current product, whether it be Star Wars or Black Panther or Wrinkle in Time or even American Idol. These are all things my five year old couldn't and probably shouldn't watch anyway, but I swear they promote them during EVERY commercial break.
     
  21. marblesmike

    marblesmike Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Just wait until she's on social media. It's nonstop. Anyone who is just now alarmed because of the recent Facebook debacle hasn't been paying attention. Of course they sell our data! I know I've received targeted Star Wars/Disney advertising due to my social media and online browsing habits.
     
  22. The Zodiac

    The Zodiac God's Lonely Man

    I haven't been paying attention but I noticed "Winkle" had lots of lukewarm (or colder) reviews. Has this been exposed as some sort of conspiracy against Oprah or is the movie genuinely lackluster?

    I guess we should all be our own reviewers and see things our own way and not worry about "consensus" (though it's nice to know something stinks before you spend your hard-earned $1.50 renting it at the Red Box). For instance, I thought best picture winner "Fish Man" was awful. Meanwhile I thought "I, Tonya" and "Phantom Thread" were better best picture choices. But it's gotten to the point where I'm wondering the movie really wasn't good or if I'm simply prejudiced against art-house inter-species love making for feeling this way.

    Meanwhile I find myself enjoying every Kevin James vehicle, so maybe I'm already too far gone.

    I don't question my feelings towards "Star Wars", though. Casino subplot was weak (horsey escape was d-d-d-dumb), drawn out space chase was just a time-killer until Luke and Rey finish up, lack of a clear story arc for the trilogy making it difficult to get excited for the next installment. I think I was fair with it.

    Still miffed they brought in a whole new character instead of letting beloved Admiral Ackbar be the one to make the sacrifice by crashing into the star destroyer. It would be a much more moving scene if it were an established character we cared about. And I love Laura Dern, so don't give me none of that chauvinist talk.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
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  23. Matthew

    Matthew Forum Resident

    Location:
    Jammin' at Sun
    That is an adjustment I think they ought to have done; thus allowing her character to become the new leader of the resistance in Episode 9.
     
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  24. The Zodiac

    The Zodiac God's Lonely Man

    Yes, it was a waste to introduce her and then kill her off. And now with Carrie gone they really could have used her. They like to kill off interesting new characters quickly, don't they? (See also: Darth Maul, Snoke, etc.)
     
  25. marblesmike

    marblesmike Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Agreed 100%.

    Listen, I'm a big David Lynch fan, so I love Laura Dern and was excited when I saw she joined the cast for TLJ. I didn't like her character and couldn't really get upset with her sacrifice because the character wasn't on screen enough to justify any sympathy--in my opinion.
     
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