Star Wars: Episode VIII (The Last Jedi) - SPOILERS POSSIBLE*

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by MLutthans, Nov 10, 2015.

  1. genesim

    genesim Forum Resident

    Location:
    St. Louis
    I told you that I watched the scene a bunch of times. Look closely at his hands, they go to his CHEST not his neck. Also there is no sound of choking like the rest of the movie.

    I am not doubting that something COULD have happened, but it is not definite to my eyes.

    The Youtube clip is hard to see. Break out the bluray and use high def sound. Watch it several times and look close. No neck is touched at all.

    The marvel comic is separate from the movie, just as novels, scripts...screenplays...whatever. I covered this.

    We can agree to disagree, no harm or foul, just know I understood about 5 posts back.
     
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  2. Takehaniyasubiko

    Takehaniyasubiko Forum Resident

    Location:
    Poland
    This is a very dark scene, so with the crushed blacks of the DVD and BD versions, you can't see a thing there. However, I used the Grindhouse ESB as a source for this shot and scaled the brightness values for maximum clarity. As you can see, Lando was subtly Force-choked by Vader.

    Vader was losing his patience and he was very close to killing Lando and the prisoners. If Luke didn't come to fight him, they would have been killed.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. bferr1

    bferr1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA
    No worries. I understand how surprising it might be to encounter something new about something so familiar. The Lando Force-choke scene is also described in the official novelization: "A sudden tightness grasped Lando's throat, a threatening sign of what would happen to him if he gave Vader any difficulty. Lando's hand automatically went to his neck, but in the next moment the unseen hold was released and the administrator turned to face Leia and Chewbacca. The look in his eyes might have expressed despair, but neither of them cared to look at him at all."

    In the movie, I see Lando's hand going to the base of his throat. And I think Vader implies nothing more than a threat to kill Lando if he doesn't do as he's told, which is to deliver Leia and Chewie to Vader's ship as prisoners. Luke had already arrived at Bespin before the Force-choke happened, and Vader had already instructed his officers to make sure Luke finds his way to him. Vader taking Leia and Chewie as prisoners is now a moot point, just tidying up loose ends.

    I think the three of us should meet and grab a beer! :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018 at 10:58 PM
  4. genesim

    genesim Forum Resident

    Location:
    St. Louis
    I never knew of it because the movie doesn't show this IMHO. The novel has no bearing on my opinion. I clarified this again...and again...and again.

    No thanks for obvious reasons.;)

    Ok lets move on.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018 at 11:20 PM
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  5. bferr1

    bferr1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA
    Fair enough.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018 at 11:25 PM
  6. genesim

    genesim Forum Resident

    Location:
    St. Louis
    p.s. Look at the picture above. I don't think anyone needs an anatomy class, but that is a CHEST, not a neck (as in constricted airway that a CHOKE can only do).

    A neck is when all the others went to their neck and grabbed it because they were being choked. Perhaps Lando was feeling uncomfortable, perhaps he did get a squeeze....or perhaps he had a gesture like a lot of people have which is stress from being worried and him grabbing his HEART instead.

    (although one thing I did note, after Chewbacca squeezed his neck...he then went to his chest. lol Not good for my theory.)

    Actors ad lib all the time, and make their own interpretation. I know that for fans that only trust comic books and scripts, they like to treat actors as if they aren't an essential part of the art that is given for us to see...but artists like actors should have a say.

    Billy Dee Williams brought so much more to the table then just the pages that were written and to compartmentalize his work into something so simple is a huge disservice to what he gave us. I am not saying that my thoughts are absolute, and I have never said it wasn't my opinion, but I also am not going around telling everyone else they are wrong and that there is no other way.

    For me, I interpret the art in the way I experienced it and I try my best to be open minded. I also understand that there can be more there then what was first imagined..even up to the last seconds of the filmed scene being born. It is little details, little inflections...little gestures, that can change it all. For whatever reason there is no force sound. I cranked up the volume, and it just isn't there. Not even subtle like. Also Lando didn't go for his neck immediately. So I guess baby pinches are just imperceptible...sure if that makes one happy. If it makes one happy to say, see that is the only way it can be. You are right, I am wrong and no one else can think any different! Yeah, just great for my drinking parties. lol

    By the way, the more I look at Vader, the more I see him for being a coward. I am actually liking him less and less as time goes on. He learns the ways of the force to go around hurting people like a spoiled brat when someone takes a stance to his lying ways. lol
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018 at 8:44 AM
  7. bferr1

    bferr1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA
    I'm old enough to remember a time before home video when we all had to wait years, not months, to see these movies from the comfort of our own home. I filled that gap through other means, which took the form of novelizations, comic books, trading cards, etc. Occasionally, they'd reissue the films in theaters, and I'd go see it again if I could. By then, I knew what to look for because my interpretation of events had been shaped by all the other media. So, when I saw Lando in the movie reach for the base of his neck for no apparent reason, I knew exactly why he was doing that.

    My "total" approach to Star Wars consumption continues to this day, with my take on The Last Jedi being informed by the novelization, comics, etc. To me, it's all part of the experience.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 14, 2018 at 11:48 AM
  8. Squealy

    Squealy Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Vancouver
    What would his hand going to his chest mean?

    It’s obviously a gesture to the possibility of being choked. There’s no reason for the motion otherwise. He didn’t literally put his hands around his neck and gasp for breath because it’s supposed to be subtle...
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018 at 11:36 AM
  9. Squealy

    Squealy Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Vancouver
    What the screenplay actually says is “Lando’s hand instinctively goes to his throat.” He’s not really being choked, he’s just thinking about it (as he’s probably seen Vader do it to other people).
     
  10. genesim

    genesim Forum Resident

    Location:
    St. Louis
    I covered this.

    You and everybody else are right, I am wrong. My mistake.

    p.s. Does this mean I get to bypass one more comibc book, script quote, diagram...etc. rubbing it in my face one more time?
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018 at 12:28 PM
  11. Texastoyz

    Texastoyz Forum Resident

    Location:
    Texas, USA
    Lovely isn't it?:righton:
     
  12. bferr1

    bferr1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA
  13. bferr1

    bferr1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA
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  14. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    B...but he hates Star Wars and Star Wars fans! How can he be so excited? Take that away from him! He ruined my childhood! Give it to me, a REAL fan who KNOWS how to make Star Wars movies that everyone would love and would make 4 billion each! Here's my address...

    Nerdy N.Malcontent esq.
    Rt1 Box thx 1178

    Arrogance, State of Delusion
    123789

    Oh...and...Muh Childhood! #Disneysux #firekennedynow #notmuhluke




    ;)
     
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  15. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
  16. marblesmike

    marblesmike Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    I saw Solo last night. Not good. Actors were fine, but didn't like the story at all. And it wasn't funny at all. Just kinda boring. My fiancé aged with me. Oh well, I was hoping I'd like it.

    Rogue One and TLJ were both better.
     
  17. marblesmike

    marblesmike Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Nothing like making fun of people who have a different opinion than you. I think you're obsessed.
     
  18. Song4U

    Song4U Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Florida
    I still haven't bought the blu ray for The Last Jedi and that's unusual for me as I always buy the latest Star Wars movies. Then it was sold out at my local target store when I did try to pick it up and I have never been back to buy it. I think there are under lying reasons why I still have not purchased the movie. I hope those reasons become less important once Ep IX is released.
     
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  19. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    Not making fun of everyone that dislikes the last Jedi. Just the ones that deserve it. I.E. grown men and women who call Rian Johnson "Ruin Johnson" as if they were still under 12 years old and those that bullied Kelly Marie Tran. The gatekeepers that declare anyone that disagrees with them " not true fans" and that they should be running the franchise because they know what's best. In my opinion, i think they deserve at least mild ridicule and tweaking.

    If you think i was talking about you, that wasn't my intention...but it seems like i struck a nerve.
     
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  20. marblesmike

    marblesmike Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Who are you to decide who deserves to be made fun of? This is a common thread in our society where arrogance causes people to mock and denigrate people with differing views or opinions. Do you see me making posts mocking people who loved TLJ?

    Just so many of your posts focus on the small group of obnoxious fans that are out there. It also ignores the large number of normal fans who didn't like the movie and is belittling in my opinion. It's like a form of snobbery.

    I don't think it's ridiculous for people to think Rian Johnson destroyed Star Wars. I don't think that (yet... It all depends on IX) but if I did, what would be the problem with that? It's my opinion, which I should be free to express without people assuming I'm a basement-dweller or "alt Reich" or a "gatekeeper."

    Just in case you didn't get the memo, there are crazy people all over the internet and not just in Star Wars groups.
     
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  21. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    I really do think how Episode VIII is ultimately viewed will largely depend on how IX is received and what happens story wise. I honestly think that why EMPIRE is so lauded by the fan base is because we know that Han survived, Luke overcame Vader and we got a happy ending that tied up everything in a big bow. Thus, all the question marks and rug getting pulled out from the audience moments throughout EMPIRE were resolved and everything worked out .Plus, in retrospect its clear that the original and JEDI were not as well made as EMPIRE was. Heck really none of the Star Wars movies since have reached that level.

    EMPIRE, like THE LAST JEDI took much of what we thought we knew coming out of the first movie of the arc and threw it away. The first movie was a simple space Fairy tale in the mould of Buck Rodgers and Flash Gordon and Good and evil were black and white. EMPIRE pretty much got rid of that vibe and it became far more mystical and dark and by the end literally everything we assumed we knew was tossed away.

    TFA was a big ball of warm fuzzy nostalgia in a new and yet familiar packaging. Old tropes were repeated and it was clear to the audience that we were following the same path from 30 plus years ago. TLJ pretty much turned all of that on its head and by the end every assumption that we as the audience made was called into question.

    What Return of the Jedi gave Empire context. I believe that is what Episode IX will give TLJ.

    Who knows...in 20 years people may be praising TLJ as the second best Star Wars movie and the best of its cycle. Or not. We simply don't know for sure.
     
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  22. Song4U

    Song4U Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Florida
    No offense to Rian Johnson but I'm kinda glad that he is not directing IX there were just scenes that left me scratching my head like Luke tossing the saber over his head and the slimy milk drinking scene, the Rey mirrors scene below (waste of time) and just Luke's attitude in general especially the beginning part of the movie and the ending I'm still trying to accept. I am really hoping that Ep IX helps the viewers understand why we had the ending of TLJ and how we can learn to accept it's outcome and more importantly why this is how it should have ended. If they gloss over this aspect and just jump into another Canto Bight scene that takes us out of the Star Wars universe it's going to be bad news.

    I'm expecting JJ Abrams to tie in these loose ends and let our hearts break and yearn for why Leia is missing (not gloss it over in a minutes time) she deserves the time to allow it to resonate with the fans so that we can close that chapter but at the same time know that she is still here just not physically in the movie. If they gloss over this in a minute or two and don't allow the fans to appreciate what we have lost in the Star Wars legacy then I will be let down. There also has to be a music track that is scored from John Williams that will be fitting for a missing princess whose left us too soon. So much is riding on this last episode to get it right.
     
  23. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    Yes there are crazies all over the internet...but this is a star wars thread so...I'm gonna talk about the crazies in Star Wars fandom. It's fair game and honestly it's sadly become part of Star Wars discussion.

    Anyway i'm sorry but anyone who can't act their age and resorts to name calling and disrespecting someone by calling them "Ruin" does deserve to be told, " dude, act your age.Grow up. Only children go that route." and yes should ultimately be shamed a bit. Not for disliking the movie. Not for disagreeing with the direction of the franchise, but for just acting like a spoiled child. If you are under the age of 13 and saying stuff like "**** Ruin Johnson and **** the Last Jedi and **** Dizney for ruining my childhood" then that's just being a stupid kid. When you see 40 years olds saying that...its asking to be made fun of. You have the right to post anything you want, but no one has to take you seriously.

    Frankly what i posted was harmless satire of a type of fan. I didn't name anyone by name. I didn't call anyone here out. Nor would I, because a few exceptions aside everyone that has contributed to this thread, both pro and con this movie have acted like rational and sane adults and not deserving of ridicule. If you took offense i apologize, but i stand by my joke. It was intended as harmless ribbing of the stereotypical gatekeeping type reacting to the link that was posted about Rian Johnson getting that vintage AT Walker. Nothing more. Nothing less.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2018 at 1:32 PM
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  24. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    I think how they handle Leia's absence is key to how this movie turns out. It was clear that Leia was going to have a huge role to play in this last act. With Carrie gone it changes everything.

    That's why i also think Luke will end up having a much larger role than originally intended. I don't think they are going to completely undo the Last Jedi and those elements, nor should they.but i do think we may have a Gandalf the white situation where he did die but was reborn with a different role and purpose. Remember that both Leia and Rey said they felt that Luke felt peace and purpose when he vanished. That last word is important. I think it's highly possible since Episode IX was always meant to tie all the way back to the prequels that Luke's " death" was always meant to open some doors. Even Rian Johnson said as much in interviews. This was never meant to be the end of Luke. Just the next step in his evolution into something else.
     
  25. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    So I'm surprised no one has talked about this.

    Fans Buzzing Over George Lucas' Purported Plans for Star Wars Episodes 7-9

    Some intriguing stuff...and i wouldn't doubt JJ may use a bit of these ideas in IX and Luke's journey to the center of the force may result in this aspect being woven into the lore going forward. It may also be the germ of the idea for Rian Johnson's upcoming non Skywalker trilogy.
     

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