Star Wars: Episode VIII (The Last Jedi) - SPOILERS POSSIBLE*

When "The Force Awakens" finally came out at the end of 2015, there were some discussion and think pieces and whatnot kind of doing a mini-reassessment of Lucas's "Prequels" in light of the new 2015 TFA film. I think this reassessment will continue as time goes by, and I think Lucas will end up coming out at least *very slightly* less vilified in the process.

I think a strong argument can be made that while the "prequels" were by most any measure far *worse* films than "The Force Awakens", what with the awful dialogue and stilted acting, a strong argument can be made that the prequels were more fundamentally *pure* as works of art. That is, it's one guy doing his thing and in a weird way actually taking some serious chances. He didn't just remake 4, 5, and 6. He clogged the movies with both silly kiddie stuff (fart jokes) and stuff that even adults find too dry (senate hearings).

Whereas, with "The Force Awakens", it reeks not only of "movie by committee", but also "movie by formula/checklist." Much like "Jurassic World", "The Force Awakens" comes across like there was huge checklist of stuff they needed to check off.

So in a weird way while TFA is a much easier film to watch, I kind of have to respect Lucas and his prequels more in a lot of ways.

Separate from all of that is what Disney has done with the franchise outside of the quality of the actual films. I would argue things are much worse for fans on that side of thing, with Disney producing lower-quality bonus features than Lucas used to, and in general applying the Disney business/merchandising ethos to "Star Wars" which is actually even more draconian than the pre-Disney days.

 

So if the Star Wars director is subject to the input of other people he doesn't have the freedom he needs or deserves...

But if the Star Wars director has complete control there is no one to "intervene" when he does something fans don't like....

How to reconcile these two positions....

 

I don't think the "problem" with something like "The Force Awakens" is that JJ Abrams, in that instance, wasn't given enough freedom. The problem, to the degree there is one, with films like that is the "committee" part. A director with a team that gives him some input is fine. But I think Disney micromanages this stuff in a more intense way, and as they've built the machine up (think Marvel films), it becomes almost self-policing to where you hire directors who know how to just fit the template Disney has set up. So you don't always end up with directors butting heads with Disney, because they hire directors who, usually, understand the deal, and can look to previous films.

Think about it, it's the already established "Lucasfilm" empire along with the Disney machine. No film that comes out of that combo is ever going to be something mind-blowingly unique or weird or eccentric. It's unavoidably homogenized to some degree.

I don't think "Star Wars", especially these main "episodes", is really a franchise that is set up to be great individual films anymore. They can't hand an episode over to some idiosyncratic director and let him have his way with it. It's all gotta have the same tone, it's gotta be PG or PG-13, it has to have enough nostalgia to get the middle aged original fans excited, it has to be "toyetic" enough, and so on.

What Disney seems to end up doing is hiring guys that can *write* within the Disney/Lucasfilm framework, and then essentially be somewhat of an on-set, sort of "Line Producer" guy who oversees the whole thing (albeit surely with many other Disney producers *also* looking over that shoulder).

I understand how someone can see a sort of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation in comparing the new SW films to the prequels and their "vision." But I think the point some are making is that both are flawed, and the machine is built up too much to allow for anything else. I'm not saying Lucas would have made nearly as good of a film as JJ Abrams. I'd rather watch TFA than the prequels, any day. But I guess on the most fundamental artistic level in terms of being the result of an artist's voice, regardless of the quality, I have to sort of respect Lucas's prequels more in some ways.

 

But what if the singular artist's vision is pure crap?

 

Then you vote with your wallet.

That's why I don't own the Blu-ray set.

 

At least with the original trilogy Lucas had respected colleagues contributing to the creative process;with Disney it's a "committee" trying to make the most profit as possible.

The look and Feel of Disney's version of Star Wars is what draws me in... yes.. nostalgic memories, being a kid ,when life was simpler... guess I'm a sucker for it.

The problem with the prequels I think is he tried too hard to be serious while at the same time trying to appeal to children under 5.
Lucas became what he loathed about Hollywood, an Emperor of sorts.

Being in my 20's at the time I just couldn't get into the prequels,it was hard to care about the characters,plot etc..,I really tried, but super high expectations and age turned me into a cynic,I guess.

And less we forget,the original trilogy was always popcorn fun,with serious situations and some comic relief (thank Marcia Lucas,Larry Kasdan) and characters you cared about etc...

 

Kids loved the prequels, and many of those kids grew into adults who love the prequels. For many of them, it was their introduction to the Star Wars universe, just as the original trilogy introduced fans to Star Wars in the 70s and 80s. The prequels aren't universally loathed. They're widely loathed by older Star Wars fans who waited 16 years for a Star Wars film and were expecting a film aimed at an adult audience. But Lucas has made it clear that he was making these films for kids. In my opinion, that was a misstep, as it was a foregone conclusion that these films would attract young and older fans. But the bottom line is that, love them or hate them, Lucas made the films that he wanted to make, and the films have their audience. Just take a look at the Jedi Council Forums. There's no shortage of prequel fans over there.

 

Is this true, though - or are you speculating? My kid saw the prequels and liked them at the time, but once he saw the original trilogy, and entered his teens, he recognizes the prequels as crap & as far as I can tell his friends feel the same.

 

I'm going by the comments I've read over on the Jedi Council Forums. They have their audience, albeit not as large as the original trilogy.

 

Yep, I agree with all of your points 100%. I've been very pleasantly surprised with the Disney sequels so far, and if nothing else, they're never boring, there's some real surprises in them, and the acting is first rate. I thought Rogue One was a little "eh," but not terrible. I knew going in the only way it could end was for everybody to die. "Meesa think they-sa all gonna die!"

 

Meeesa think you-sa right !

Yeah... had high expectations for this one, it was good, not ESB good as some critics raved.
CGI Tarkin was very distracting, Lea's creepy dead pan smile, no thanks.
The technology used to bring back actors from the dead is not quite there yet (debate weather it ever should be).
Some people think it looks great, I think those people are kidding themselves; a hologram Tarkin would have been fine.
Lea didn't need to be in this movie either, nor did R2, 3-PO, Ponda Baba and the Doctor, but these are just my pet peeves.

On the other hand, inserting deleted footage from Star Wars (Red leader/Gold leader) was very well done, it also made sense for them to be there.
The look and feel of the Star Wars universe is captured in this one, even more than TFA,minus the wipes, opening crawl and John Williams.
Giacchino's score was very good, most of the time, given the short amount of time he had to write it.
The Space battle above Scarif is arguably one of the best in the whole series... now that was a fun ride !

Darth Vader's scenes didn't work for me either, especially the slaughterfest at the end.
Felt out of place, given the previous scenes with Diego Luna, Felicity Jones and the rest of the team dying.
It also doesn't line up with the dialogue between Captain Antilles and Vader at the beginning of Star Wars.
The first scene with Lea and Vader in Star Wars now makes the exchange/dialogue between the two of them rather silly.
My point being Lea and the Tantive IV should not have been at the battle above Scarif, or at least confronted by Vader.
I'm sure a fan edit could be made to cut that scene out... maybe not, too many people love it, as they should.

On a positive note, the silhouette of Vader's shadow just before his reveal at the castle was a nice touch.
Hearing James Earl Jones voice again was a pleasant surprise, given the rather cheesy choke on your aspirations line.
Overall, the return of the Dark lord was a bit of a letdown.

Getting back to "The Last Jedi", looking forward to Luke training Rey, Finn and Poe's friendship,Ren's slow descent into madness,riddled with guilt for killing his father.
Phasma seeking revenge on Finn, Rey being related to no one, be it Skywalker, Kenobi, Palpatine, Sifo- Diyas for the prequel crowd, or any other past character.
Snokes practical effect look,Bencio Del Toro and Laura Dern's new characters (a big fan of both of them) , the cool new ships and vehicles and so on...
I really hope Disney keeps their promise not to CGI Carrie Fisher in episode 9 ,or replace her with someone else.
Either way,Lucasfilm has a tough decision to make.

 

This has been said before (I believe) in one of the last 21 pages; Vader's walk doesn't look right. He looks kind of like he's bouncing when he walks. In the original trilogy he has an imposing walk, he almost floats along. In R1, it looks like a guy trying to walk like he thinks Vader would walk.

 

I've been reading a few spoilers about The Last Jedi, and I have to say that it sounds like it's going to be really weird! As in, out there, man.

 

I'm actually trying to avoid the spoilers; It's gonna to be hard not to give in to temptation.
Regret going in to "TFA" knowing as much as I did; it was a mistake and I hope not to repeat it.

 

I don't have a lot productive to say about this. I don’t understand how Jedi Lorde/Grimes/Lykke Li keeps her makeup so nice on the little island with WETA Studios-quality hobbit grass. And why isn’t the ocean totally CGI? It’s not faithful to the secondary triology, sorry. Lastly, looking forward to the space battle/small band of warriors needs to blow up something on the planet action counterpoint. Some plot devices are as vital as the air I now breathe.

But no way I'm not seeing this the first few days it opens.

 

Interesting

 

Gotta love Star wars.....

 

Good merge, good merge.

 

And then I was transported back to 1978 sitting in the living room in front of my Atari 2600 @ 8pm when a mysterious figure dressed in a robe came in handed me a video cartidge and said "The Jedi....must end..."....The label reads.... "The Last Jedi Game"...

 

Looking at the last part of the trailer again. I dont think that is a cave opening. I think its the Force Sensitive Tree he is living in. Maybe this has already been pointed out.

 

I think it is, too. He must live in the cave with the Journal Of The Whills.

 

Why isn't he living in a mud hut?

 

I think he actually lives in the tree. Its huge. He probably spent the last few years holed up in there simply meditating and reading. The tree kind of "feeding" him the true source of what the force is about.

Always remember though...dont piss a tree off....

 

I mean to say 'Tree' and typed 'cave'!