Star Wars - Will the ORIGINAL Cinema Versions Ever be Released on Blu-ray?

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by gener8tr, Dec 14, 2009.

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  1. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    I disagree with your comment on the color-correction, since I did a lot of it myself. But note that this was 100% personally supervised by George himself, and the director got exactly what he asked for. He told me that the 2004 video release was the only one he ever actually supervised and approved; Howard Kazanjian did the one in the 1980s, and Rick McCallum did the one in the 1990s.

    I do 100% agree that it should've been done at 4K restoration, preferably on a pin-registered scanner, but they had a deadline to meet. As a result, it was done on a Spirit 2K scanner (at Post Group/LA). We did the color correction at IL+M's offices on Kerner Blvd. in San Rafael, using a temporary room with a Pandora Pogle Platinum color-corrector, working with 2K files coming from a Quantel IQ server. Five years ago, there was no way to work with 4K files in real time; now, it can be done, but it's a slow and expensive process.

    They did do lots and lots and lots of digital 2K restoration on the project over at Lowry Digital in Burbank, and I thought it was a nearly-pristine image once they got done with it. To my knowledge, the negative that was used was most of the 1997 negative, which had a combination of the original 1977 footage and new digital inserts. They also redid a number of sequences, like the new Jabba footage (which looked much better than the 1997 versions).

    Note that the version I worked on was the 3-film boxed DVD set; the original release was from an older transfer.
     
  2. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    A lot of the original Technicolor imbibition printing technology was never patented, but instead just treated as a trade secret. Some portions of it have never been figured out. I've asked some of the older lab guys at the North Hollywood facility, and they kind of change the subject and don't want to talk about it. (Herb Kalmus' autobiography, Mr. Technicolor, hints at some of the secrets, but doesn't spill the beans.)

    I see both sides of it. Lucas today sees all the faults in the older films and feels compelled to fix them. He owns the negative, he owns all the rights, he wrote the films, he directed Episodes 1-4, he owns a world-class VFX facility, and he has the money, time, and talent... it's hard to tell him "no."

    I think his basic philosophy is, "I appreciate the fans, but at some point, they have to concede that the artist owns the work, not the general public." I personally think that he'd be better off releasing one final "corrected" version on Blu-ray, with the original theatrical releases included on extra discs, but I don't get to vote.

    I have read the book The Secret History of Star Wars, and it's a fascinating (albeit ultra-over-detailed to the point of obsessive) work. George is not a bad guy, and I think from his perspective, he's just trying to make the best movie he can. His intentions are good, even if you don't agree with him.

    I think there's a weird thing that happens in pop culture where the fans get so close to the work, they feel like they own it, since it's part of their lives. I'm reminded of the comments John Lennon would make about how Beatles fans sometimes drove him crazy, "as if they owned him" in some way. I think people at Lucas' level have the same problem, but at some point, you have to back off and acknowledge it's the artist's work, not the public's.
     
  3. BrianH

    BrianH Formerly healyb

    Location:
    usa
    I remember Lucas saying he didn't like the cold-blooded nature of Han shooting Greedo like he did in the original version.

    Weak, but that's what he said.
     
  4. daglesj

    daglesj Forum Resident

    Location:
    Norfolk, UK
    I would just like to see a restored set of the original three (but I'd never watch the third as only the first 40 minutes are worth watching).

    Restored to original cut, cleaned up, color corrected, the scene fades/edits cleaned up and the composite sfx shots sharpend and tightend using computer assistance.

    Essentially the special editions without anything added.

    But then at the end of the day they are just animated toy catalogues as far as Lucas is concerned. He can roll them out every generation with another batch of toys.

    I still have my original WS VHS (the ones with the proper film covers) of Starwars that I'm keeping.
     
  5. wolfram

    wolfram Slave to the rhythm

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Man, that's one schizophrenic thing to say.:eek: Maybe it would be safest for all to leave this man alone and let him do what he needs to do.


    [​IMG]
     
  6. Dennis Metz

    Dennis Metz Born In A Motor City south of Detroit

    Location:
    Fonthill, Ontario
    Agreed. I cannot believe how bad the three new SW movies are:thumbsdn::cheers:
     
  7. daglesj

    daglesj Forum Resident

    Location:
    Norfolk, UK
    I always wondered what Lucas thought when he first saw The Matrix that summer in 99.

    A movie that really came out of nowhere and totally trashed The Phantom Menace on pretty much every level.

    Hell, even American Pie looked like Citizen Kane compared to TPM.
     
  8. Dennis Metz

    Dennis Metz Born In A Motor City south of Detroit

    Location:
    Fonthill, Ontario
    :edthumbs::cheers:
     
  9. Spirit Crusher

    Spirit Crusher Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mad Town, WI
    Cinema is a collaborative process and Lucas arguably isn't the sole author of the original Star Wars films; he didn't write the screenplays for Empire and Jedi nor did he direct them. I think this is auteur theory taken to megalomanical levels.
     
  10. JAuz

    JAuz Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    Not to get too sidetracked here, but this is something that intrigues me.

    Is there any benefit in video quality when printing-up a film that was shot on 35mm to 70mm?

    I read this page at the widescreen museum, but it doesn't seem to address the issue directly (or maybe I am just missing it). I understand the other benefits such as utilizing already existing 70mm projectors to show 35mm films, which seemed to be a big deal when this article was written, but I'm curious about the quality issue.

    Let's say that a film utilizes the full 35mm negative, with the picture stored anamorphically. Either a 35mm print is projected with an anamorphic lens onto a screen, or some kind of conversion process is used to create a non-anamorphic version that is put onto a 70mm print, then projected. How will these be different? How it is possible to get more information out of the original negative, as the link implies?

    Or is this just interesting because of the novelty of having a 70mm print of Star Wars, even though it wasn't shot on 70mm film?
     
  11. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    70mm Blow ups are (were) pointless, unless you dig grain.

    On the other hand, I saw a 70 blow up answer print with separate mag soundtrack at USC of RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK and it rocked my world. When I saw the actual release print in Westwood it was a shadow of what I saw at USC..
     
  12. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Not the one I saw. It was mint, unfaded and fun to watch. The guy will be buried with it though..
     
  13. BeatleJWOL

    BeatleJWOL Senior Member

    How do you explain, then, the lightsaber color issues? [Namely in ROTJ, but hinted at in some of these other analyses.] Or is that not a part of the "color-correction"; is that one on the visual effects team?

    So the four-disc set (with the Empire of Dreams documentary and featurettes on a fourth disc) is not your work? Were the films redone for the two-disc isolated releases, or do you know?
     
  14. axnyslie

    axnyslie Forum Resident

    The sad irony is Lucas will never revise or tinker with The Phantom Menace in any way. To him that is a perfect movie. :rolleyes:
     
  15. gener8tr

    gener8tr Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Vancouver, WA USA
    It's a pride thing, I'm sure. No other way to spin it.
     
  16. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Well, if the screen is very large, i.e., a 32' tall D-150 or Cinerama installation, the 70mm print will have a very stable picture compared to 35mm on the same size screen, due to reduced visible registration jitter (bob & weave). Because the frame size in the projector is larger, the magnification is less, so the effects of registration jitter are significantly reduced. Plus, a quality projector like a Norelco AA-II will run that 70mm film "like butter," if you know what I mean.

    If it's a 12' tall screen in a multiplex, yes, it's more-or-less pointless. (We could nitpick a couple of things.)

    Matt
     
  17. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend

    Location:
    Texas

    Incorrect! Lucas went back and replaced most of the "puppet" Yoda with CGI. Look for that when TPM gets re-released in 3D one of these days. This is discussed in one of the DVD documentaries in EpIII.
     
  18. mark renard

    mark renard Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    The puppet Yoda did look awful in TPM.
     
  19. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Thing is (Matt and most of you film guys know) that a blow-up can be great if carefully made from the right elements. Heck, my STAR WARS experience from the 1977 Chinese Theatre was wonderful. I'll never forget it. The 1997 "Anniversary" version at the Chinese was dreadful, visuals dynamically compromised, soft, sound compressed, etc. I'll never forget that, either.:mad:
     
  20. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff



    Right on, and it's not just the elements, it's the people RUNNING THE ACTUAL SHOW. The Cinerama in Seattle has an ongoing 70mm festival, and I think that nobody there knows how to setup the mag playback chain. If you enjoy your 70mm blowups with no bass and harsh sound, it's the place to go!

    My favorite experience there: 2001 played a few months back, and at the start of the movie, only the surrounds were on. I went down to the lobby and told the gal that there was no sound from behind the screen, and she literally went to the manager and said: Hey, do we have seats behind the screen? There's some guy here saying there's no sound back there.

    I'm not kidding....
     
  21. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Matt,

    At the film screenings at the LA County Art Museum back in the day I saw a lot of stuff. When, in 1989 Jeff Joseph and I screened my IB Technicolor 35mm mag Superscope/Perspecta print of AROUND THE WORLD IN 80 DAYS there (since degraded to gum) we were shocked to discover (after a day of set up problems) that the left and right channels behind the screen were reversed and they had been showing mag with reverse sound for who knows how long. We were in a bind (since the dialog in 80 DAYS was totally directional) and put a fast patch in to correct. A billion years later (a few years ago) much to my surprise the patch was just like we left it (thank God) as was my note saying "Patch fixes left and right anomaly". but no one ever bothered to actually fix the problem and remove the patch..

    And that's at one of the GOOD places in LA to watch old movies on the big screen.

    Ah well, back to Star Bores.
     
  22. ferdinandhudson

    ferdinandhudson Forum Resident

    Location:
    Skåne
    :laugh: That is just scary.
     
  23. JA Fant

    JA Fant Well-Known Member

    Agreed-

    Lucas has the original film print versions for certain. Now, is he willing to give them up to be made into bluray?
     
  24. BeatleJWOL

    BeatleJWOL Senior Member

    Short answer: No.

    Long answer: well, you've heard THAT joke before, I'm sure.
     
  25. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    I saw that in 4-track mag IB tech at the Stanford Theatre in Palo Alto a few years ago. Looked and sounded great, and well worth the trip from Seattle.

    Matt
     
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