Static and loud POP's.

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Summerisle, Aug 1, 2015.

  1. Majestyk

    Majestyk Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vancouver
    You stated above that it happens after 10 minutes. My guess is the folks testing it didn't wait that long.
     
  2. Summerisle

    Summerisle Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle, WA, USA
    Either way they just gave me gently used Mira 3 for my troubles. Same amplifier. No issues anymore.
     
    timind likes this.
  3. I333I

    I333I Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ventura
    I'm having the same issue with my Rogue Cronus Magnum II. Static from the left channel. I can hear it through my speaker, and headphones even with the volume turned to zero. I was told to try to use ferrite clips on the AC cord and that it's most likely interference. I don't understand why static would only be coming out of one side if this is the case, though.
     
  4. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    Could be a multitude of things.

    Have you tried changing the amp's location to see if it's environmental?

    Assuming that has been ruled out, it could be tube-related. Perhaps you have a or some microphonic tubes.
     
    The FRiNgE likes this.
  5. The FRiNgE

    The FRiNgE Forum Resident

    One channel static is not from the AC line. (as you have questioned and rightly so)
    The cause is more than likely from your amp, a bad, arcing cap, or a dirty tube socket... could be a bad tube. Bad interconnect cables can sometimes cause intermittent static, but this would not the most common cause.

    You can troubleshot this yourself to some degree. Wiggle the tubes or remove/replace the tubes several times to "clean" the pins and sockets. If this works, the sockets need cleaning. Have your amp checked by a tech, clean the sockets, and switches (NO DeOxit) (No, NO, ) That stuff will ruin your switch contacts! (cleans them but ruins them) For the static problem you describe, the cause is NOT in the pots, so expressly instruct the tech to NOT clean the pots, please! (BTW hard to find a tech nowadays who does not use deoxit... very sadly)

    The reason for this, cleaning the pots liberally tends to remove some lube from the bearing, causes "overwash" of the lube on the pot wiper and trace, where it should not be. The action of the pot can also lose its damped, comfortable feel when over-cleaned by a tech. If the pots do not emit static when operated.. DO NOT SERVICE them!

    By the description of the problem, your amplifier's switches (function selector, mono switch, if it has these) may need cleaning, but not the pots.

    Just putting this out there, as this detail is important, and very frequently overlooked!
     
    I333I likes this.
  6. I333I

    I333I Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ventura
    Very interesting. The person that I've been emailing asked me to switch two 12AU7's, which I did today, and have had no static all day. Even if it's a temporary fix and they need to be cleaned, at least I have an idea of what's wrong.
     
    The FRiNgE likes this.
  7. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    As I suspected. Defective tubes. Predictable if frustrating problem to have when it occurs.
     
  8. I333I

    I333I Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ventura
    I actually didn't switch them, I swapped their places in the amp. Does this mean that the sockets need cleaning, in your opinion?
     
  9. P2CH

    P2CH Well-Known Member

    If it was me, I'd leave well enough alone. If the noise is gone, sit back and relax.
     
    Manimal likes this.
  10. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    In guitar amps (look at my username), microphonic tubes can be used successfully in certain spots. It's possible you put the microphonic tubes in slots where those qualities wouldn't have a negative effect on the sound.

    Another possibility is that you did something while in the process of switching the tubes around that actually fixed the process.

    As for whether the sockets need to be cleaned, no harm can be done if you clean them properly, assuming you have some experience in the matter. Personally, I wouldn't even bother unless you find there's a difference in sound quality since you performed the rotation. Otherwise, as P2CH stated, sit back & relax. :)
     
  11. Bathory

    Bathory Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Chicago
    clean your records before EVERY play.

    same here !!!! 1200 mkii right channel has more crackles than left. i switched TT's , receivers, cabling, speaker wiring, switched left/right rca's from turntable, still in right channel.

    crazy, i tried three different stylus', some worse than others, i am certain the one i use to record my LP's is the culprit (band name drop!!)
    its voiced to raise the treble ortofon Arkiv) when i tried the stanton 680EL and the ortofon nightclub mkii , it was not as pronounced. so for me it is the Arkiv stylus, which is causing the extra increase in treble , huh, all that mess in round ( 4 hrs one night) was just me being a douche. all is well, just record a little louder :)
     
  12. I333I

    I333I Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ventura
    We're talking about the components. Not the common popping or clicks of uncleaned vinyl. My issue was present when CDs, records and absolutely nothing was playing. Luckily, it seems, the problem was fixed by switching tubes around.
     
  13. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Uppsala Sweden
    I am yet another Nagaoka MP110 user with this static pop issue. Every 5 seconds or so there is an agressive tick which I assume is static discharge. If anyone found any solutions please do tell. The only thing I can think of is that the connections are loose somewhere.
     
  14. The FRiNgE

    The FRiNgE Forum Resident

    Had this problem eons ago with a friend's Pickering cartridge on a Yamaha turntable. I was not able to isolate the problem at that time, no loose connections, chassis ground was secure. The static occurred on all records.

    What I think the cause may be:
    1) broken ground to the arm tube
    2) turntable ground open (bad connector or bad connection inside the turntable)
    3) the static may not be the turntable, could be in the phono stage
    4) cartridge is loose in the headshell, or a loose jumper pin, or loose headshell connection
    5) Loose or bad phono cable

    Does the static recur at the same points on the record? or Does the static occur randomly?
    Does the static problem stop with another cartridge?
    When you touch the arm, do you hear any hum?
     
  15. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Uppsala Sweden
    Well what do you know, it seems like the problem has sort of solved itself somehow. Perhaps there was some break in needed, or some charge needed to fade over night. No more static pops. For future reference I will wait 24 hours to let a properly set up cartridge sit if needed.
    The static did occur with consistency, about every 5 seconds or so, in places where my old Rega Carbon Cart did not pick up any crackles. Mostly new and clean records I test with. I hear no hum when touching the arm but there has recently been a hum in my setup. Some days its louder and others not. Yesterday it was louder than usual with the accompanied static pops. Although as a Rega owner I have no way of better grounding my table easily, as far as I know.

    If I may ask some questions regarded my Nagaoka setup however. When I installed it on my Rega RP1 RB101 tonearm it took a while to fit on the grids of my Argon Alignment 1 mirror protractor. I feel like I eventually got it close to perfect after many hours but I was a little concerned that the screws were fitted too far out on the headshell. Its somewhat between the middle and the furthest point out and I assume this can have some tracking problems depending on cart.
    Another concern of mine were that even with 0 anti skate the cantilever would bend inwards toward the spindle when lowered on the protractor. I was afraid that I had broken it when I at first forgot to 0 the anti skate when setting the alignment but in a floating position its straight. I had to lower the anti skate a lot for it to be still on a blank part of the record however. The tracking force was set to 1.8g and anti skate as close to that as possible according to the numbers on the RP1 ( Which are quite crude with only 0, 1 and 2 as indicators). I had to lower the anti skate to about 1.4 to have the arm track straight on a blank surface and for the cantilever to track straight in a groove. I suppose its more important to trust this than the number indicators on the RP1, since they are just estimations, or so I imagine.
    My last concern however is that the SRA is sub optimal for my cart. Just looking with the naked eye it seems to angle at about 80 degrees instead of the preferred 92. This is something I can not fix easily however. Id have to install tonearm spacers to raise the whole arm and get a better angle. But doing this will throw of my current VTF and flat VTA. My local TT expert suggested not to do this as the benefits would be canceled out with the added resonance and change in VTA.
    What do you think, should I be concerned about any of the things mentioned?
     
  16. The FRiNgE

    The FRiNgE Forum Resident

    Almost everything is a concern in the world of the audiophile. :sigh:
    The cantilever lean on your protractor is probably due to the tracking force on a stationary (non-spinning) surface. The angle of the cantilever (not the rake angle of the stylus) is about 20 to 30 degrees (varies by manufacturer) so as the cantilever gets pushed up slightly under tracking force on the protractor, it is pushed BACK slightly, and has nowhere to go except to one side or the other (this does not occur on a spinning record as the stylus is "pulled") Next time you line it up, try reducing the tracking force to about 0.5 grams on the protractor... the cantilever remains stationary at that setting. Don't forget to set your tracking force when you're done.

    The anti-skate gauges are seldom dead on. Different stylus types require different settings. Different records vary in their skating force applied on the stylus. Different parts of the record vary the skating force (loud passages more skating force) and the outer band has more skating pull then at the inner groove. Skating force is complex and variable. If you set it on a blank record, that's ok. Better is the way you have observed.. You want the cantilever to remain centered over the spinning record groove. Since the skating force is least at the inner groove, it may be a good idea to check it there. A well designed anti-skate mechanism compensates for this as it will apply MORE anti-skate at the outer groove, vs LESS anti-skate at the inner groove. If your Rega anti-skate needs a slightly different setting for perfect centering at outer groove, but slightly off at the inner groove, this will be quite normal. If the variance happens to be greater, (deviates by about 1 gram on the scale) then the mechanism isn't well engineered. If the difference happens to be slight, don't worry about it.

    The anti-skate should be as close as you can get it, but if not pure perfection, this will not be a deal breaker.

    The SRA can be adjusted with a shim to pitch the cartridge forward or aft.

    To set up with a protractor, the overhang should be set first. (should be but there are exceptions... more on this in a moment) The proper overhang places the stylus at the correct arc across the record as designed by the tone arm manufacturer. The overhang is also a fast method to set up the cartridge, while the cartridge remains parallel to the headshell. This adjustment will place the screw heads anywhere in the headshell slots. The alignment should be reasonably close by this method. My only concern would be when the screws are at max forward or back, usually a bad sign. (means we're doing something wrong, or a cartridge mismatch) Somewhat off the center of the slot is ok.

    Personally when I do a set up I get "lazy" (sort of) not officially recommended, but something to understand when doing your setup. (this "lazy" setup is highly accurate if one understands what's going on) The exact overhang setting is overrated. We should, but don't have to. The offset can be adjusted plus or minus, or the cartridge angled (or twisted slightly) in the headshell to obtain tangency at the two null points on the protractor. The headshell slots place your cartridge well in reasonable range to set it up correctly. When I see my stylus is lined up at the inner groove, (or at the cartridge reference parallel sides) and again at the outer null point, I'm happy... and have never encountered any tracking issues, distortion, etc. (When I see the arc of the arm produces very low error across the record.. two null points dead on, there is no need to go any further by checking the overhang.. mission accomplished) I prefer the Stevenson alignment which defaults to the inner groove with just a little compromise at the outer groove. Tracking error of about 2 to 3 degrees at the first track isn't audible, at least not to my ears. But that same error at the inner groove is audible. The conical stylus is the exception, not fussy with the offset, but does not track as well as premium styli.

    good luck,
    Steve VK
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017
    stuwee likes this.
  17. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Uppsala Sweden
    Thanks, I think the reason why the cantilever bends inwards is also because my TT is ever so slightly off level that way. And there might also be some slight anti skate left even at 0 as I have now seen on other Rega tables.
    I dont think adding cartridge shims will help though. That only makes the angle less than 80 degrees and would tilt the arm upwards.
     
  18. The FRiNgE

    The FRiNgE Forum Resident

    Makes sense about the bias, and do level that turntable. :)
    The spacer/ shim should not raise the arm too much, but 80 degrees is so far off.. are you sure it's that much? The shim can be very thin, all it does is angle the cartridge. The Nagoka should be compatible with the Rega arm. (I believe)
    My original AR arm had no VTA adjustment, a simple arm, no anti-skate. The set up instructions suggested a shim in the event the arm wasn't parallel or the rake angle wasn't right. (shim supplied as an accessory) To make set up easier, secure the shim to the cartridge with a small sliver of two way tape.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017
  19. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Uppsala Sweden
    Well Im not sure I can. The table itself is pretty much on point. But if you place a level on the platter it gets a little off near the edges. Maybe because I had my mat on, Ill see what I can do.
    But are there angled shims, like cheese slices?Ive only seen flat ones.
     
    The FRiNgE likes this.
  20. CCrider92

    CCrider92 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cape Cod, MA
    Are you a member of VE > Vinyl Engine? VE has a forum dedicated to Rega tables. You may want to check it out.
     
  21. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Uppsala Sweden
    Yes I am, even though I rarely visit. Im not sure if I need help with anything specific at the moment though. Did you have anything in mind that I should look at?
     
  22. CCrider92

    CCrider92 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cape Cod, MA
    There's been a lot of discussion on VE about Rega's anti-skate. There are a lot of guys who know the vagaries of Rega tables quite well.
     
    Leonthepro likes this.
  23. The FRiNgE

    The FRiNgE Forum Resident

    Angled shims is a good idea, not sure if they exist or easily available. You could fashion one from a small piece of wood from a hobby shop. Do this with a sanding block and finish with a medium flat file should do the job. The file is for better flatness. Don't forget to notch for the screws. For small work, it's better to trim larger than needed, then sand/ file the sides to the exact dimension.. somewhat tedious but it's a better shim. The angled shim supports the full mounting surface, and greatly lowers any stress on the cartridge body.
     
  24. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Uppsala Sweden
    Looking at the TT today I dont think angled shims are possible. To tilt the cart forward would make it impossible to fit the screws on straight on the headshell. Unless you completely make something custom which may or may not work.
     
  25. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Uppsala Sweden
    Does anybody know the reason why crackles on some records tend to reside on the louder and more modulated groove passages?

    - Static being attracted to those areas more?
    - Dirt sticking to those areas more because, magic?
    - Cartridges not being able to track them properly?

    Certain records have this problem because once those passages are over it suddenly gets much less crackly.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018

Share This Page