Stay away from UPS. Don't use UPS.

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by lpcd2001, May 1, 2002.

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  1. lpcd2001

    lpcd2001 New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    san jose
    Stay away from UPS. Never use UPS.
    This is an edited mail to a seller on how UPS screwed up a LP that I was search for many months.

    Hi, UPS left the DCC record at my front door. And I was speechless. Tears almost came to my eyes .... because I finally found it and UPS just wrecked it. I did wish the record was packed better but I don't know what they did to wreck my LP like this. They bent the package and the record inside. I still am very angry by this handling because I have wanted this record. It's useless now because my VPI Aries can't track this would-have-been beautiful record. Man, what a criminals these UPS guys are. This is the 3rd time that they screwed me up like this.

    I hope that I can get the refund from the seller. After all, the package could have been better, i.e., a lot more padding than a piece of carton to pad.

    Still am furious
     
  2. Andy

    Andy New Member

    Unless the LP was insured I don't think you should expect much from the seller. Even if it was insured you would have to deal with UPS.
     
  3. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    South Plymouth, Ma
    UPS DOES have a high quality standard and good intention of getting your package to you safely, but USPS wins hands down.

    UPS will not deliver to me when I'm at work (everyday) because no one's home, the way they treat even small packages is a crime, and their front office is open 3-4 hours a day.

    The post office is open a lot longer, most packages under 5-10lbs is cheaper, trackable, and the packages are delt with more care.

    I've never been burned like this guy above ^ but I do whatever I can to avoid anything being sent UPS. They just don't have anything together these days, and its getting worse.
     
  4. Andy

    Andy New Member

    If you have to file a claim for an item that was insured UPS seems to make the process as difficult as possible. USPS is usually much easier to deal with.
     
  5. Patrick M

    Patrick M Subgenius

    Location:
    US
    My first FedEx ground package

    Received as follows:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Apologies for the crappy pix, but you get the idea.
     
  6. Andy

    Andy New Member

    Everyone has an off day occasionally.
     
  7. Andy

    Andy New Member

    Did you file a claim?
     
  8. Paul Chang

    Paul Chang Forum Old Boy, Former Senior Member Has-Been

    lpcd2001,

    I feel your pain, having been victimized by both UPS and USPS myself. :( :mad: What title was wrecked by UPS? Hope it is still possible to find another copy.

    Good news for you - Because UPS was used, your package was automatically insured for free up to $100. Keep the package and curse, uh, call UPS's customer no-service. On second thought, use their web site and save your breath. It could be detrimental to your health calling UPS after what you've been through. I'm serious.

    http://www.ups.com/using/custserv/ups_csp/claims_faq.html

    UPS will send somebody, who may never show up as promised like they did to my wife, to pick up the damaged goods from you. This is their way of showing remorse and apologizing to you. Hopefully, the claim will get processed eventually. I think UPS will pay the shipper from whom you get the refund because they never saw a penny from you. I was insulted on the phone by a UPS customer no-service robot telling me that I was no customer to her for I never paid them directly. I fired back asking "who gave the money to the shipper to pay you?" So don't call them if you want to live longer.

    Don't throw away any packing material because they need to see it. One time my wife recycled the dirty outer box before I had a chance to discover that some LPs' jackets were damaged and they refused to process the claim even the inner box was dented as badly. (Yes it was double boxed but still got dinged.) Luckily Rick of Red Trumpet helped me get the records replaced by dealing with the local UPS office in York, PA.
     
  9. Patrick M

    Patrick M Subgenius

    Location:
    US
    Yeah, but of course the money went to the person who sent it to me, who then had to get another speaker and send it to me. Took a looooong time.

    The moral of this thread is:

    Don't use UPS.
    Don't use USPS.
    Don't use FedEx.

    Shipping to Canada from the US takes an eternity, so don't do this, either.

    Shipping from the UK to the US takes an eternity, so don't do this either.

    BTW, an "off day" is of little comfort when you've already been waiting and waiting for a replacement speaker. I think it wound up taking about 3 months from the time I first sent in a bad speaker till I got a working replacement.
     
  10. Andy

    Andy New Member


    That's not the only problem. Determining value can also be a problem. Back in the days before I saw the light I paid a lot of money for a sealed MFSL copy of Waiting for Columbus. I nearly cried when I unwrapped it. UPS decided just because I was willing to pay $135 for the record didn’t mean that was its “true” value. I never did figure out what the “true” value was and ended up settling for $85.
     
  11. Paul Chang

    Paul Chang Forum Old Boy, Former Senior Member Has-Been

    Easier to deal with? Not with certain federal employees working at certain post office. The only time that I filed a claim with USPS, I was at first told incorrectly by a supervisor to wait 30 days. I went home and found out the waiting period was for nondelivered items so I went back. A female clerk told me the supervisor did not know! (What/who was he supervising? :rolleyes: ) I was then insulted in my face by her that she couldn't tell if the shipper had dropped the box and so damaged the records before it got into USPS's system, because the outer box looked old and reused. She probably invested heavily in the paper/box making industry to suggest all shippers to use brand new boxes.

    When I finally had it processed by another person a few days later, he patiently put down each title in the box set on the claim form, talking about easy to deal with. He was definitely nicer, though.
     
  12. Andy

    Andy New Member

    I can only suggest that postal employees that you have known since you were both in 1st grade are easier to deal with than your average postal employee.
     
  13. Paul Chang

    Paul Chang Forum Old Boy, Former Senior Member Has-Been

    You should have taken UPS to small claim court. All you have to do is showing them the original receipt and they should pay up and shut up. Their claim department are probably hired to cheat little people like us out of the full insured value. Also I could argue that the fact that you paid $135 for the record did not mean its true value could not be higher. It was/is/has been/will be out of print for crying out loud. :mad:

    The shipper will carry more weight if it has a sizable business with UPS, which is true for almost every mail order record store. However, it is usually not the case for most eBay sellers. :( Paying with your credit cards may also provide some protection.
     
  14. Patrick M

    Patrick M Subgenius

    Location:
    US
    Same experience here. I was told to wait 30 days and given about a dozen pages of stuff to fill out. Luckily, I got the package within the 30 day window, so I didn't have to file a claim.
     
  15. Andy

    Andy New Member



    Probably I should have. Now when I expect a UPS shipment I make sure the walk way is mined with doggie bombs.
     
  16. Paul Chang

    Paul Chang Forum Old Boy, Former Senior Member Has-Been

    Patrick,

    What options are left? Airbourne Express, DHL, or the old fashion "I'll pick 'em up in person"? If I only had a Gulfstream ...

    Andy was probably referring to your crappy pix comment.
     
  17. Paul Chang

    Paul Chang Forum Old Boy, Former Senior Member Has-Been

    Don't let your urge for revenge do more damage to your records. ;)
     
  18. NoTinEar

    NoTinEar Suspended

    This is the time I get to bad mouth UPS on another forum, I can waste some cyberspace and chime in on them and shipping your stuff in general. WOOO HOO

    First of all, there are so many reasons why these companies treat you like they do, which is to say like you are wasting their time when it comes time to file some kind of "insurance" claim, that it would take a couple hundred pages of cyberspace to list them all. The bottom line is these companies know that generally you only have so many other alternatives companies to ship with. They, that is all these competing companies in the sipping business, also know that those other companies don't treat you any better more or less once it comes to file some kind of claim, be it a lost package, wrong delivery, or "insurance". As such, you have a general level of mistreatment from employees to the customer that is pervasive through all these companies, as they know that level of treatment exists at any other company. Just as a personal pet peeve, UPS is by far the biggest joke of a shipping company. I could care less about how many packages they actually move a day without incident, how good there delivery time record is, etc. etc. The reason they work at such a pace is because they price themselves lower then anyone else and as a result receive a larger amount of the package shipping services. They however haven't compensated for this increased pace by having the proper customer service or for that matter just general business practices. For big businesses, and I am not saying there is anything wrong with it, it's about saving money and if they can save a few dollars a package with UPS, then they use them. If UPS actually shipped fewer packages and could devote more time to better service and delivery perhaps they wouldn't annoy so many people. UPS's idea of a signature release is to put the word "porch" instead of a real signature, representing that they left it on a porch at their discretion. I had an incident were I sent a client product via UPS. I assumed the client received the product because I never heard from the client indicating they didn't receive it. Time goes by, client doesn't pay his bill, and I look up the delivery information. Long story short, the package was left on the porch of the client's property. It wasn't delivered to anyone. The client denies getting it and I cant sue him, because technically HE, the exact person it was addressed to and placed the order, cant be proved to ever have received it. I am out the package and ups can't be held responsible, because the package was delivered and according to their policies their end of the contract to ship it had been served. At any rate that is one of MANY UPS stories I have. Now I am aware there are other options with UPS that technically force them to get signatures, or alternatives from other companies. That said, I will say with UPS, I have personally had packages left at the door and then check on the web site and it lists my actual last name as signing for the package. You infer whatever meaning you want from that. Okay my UPS rant is over.

    On to some constructive advice I can offer when it comes to shipping and claims. If you are sending or receiving something that is worth enough money that you would go through the effort to insure it, then be sure the packaging could be sent to the moon, run over by a car, held underwater, shot from a cannon, etc. I am using some outrageous examples, but the general idea is good. You must assume your package will be mistreated, you must assume no one at these shipping companies cares about the sentimental value of whatever your sending, and you can be damn sure no one at these companies has the slightest care about the fact your item is irreplaceable to you whatever the monetary value might be. Get yourself a "procedure" for packaging those kinds of things. Double boxing, triple boxing, peanut packing, paper packing, bubble wrap, tyvek envelopes (that's the envelopes that you can get from the post office for express or priority flat fee packages. They are tear, rip, cut and most important water-resistant), Ziploc bags, Mylar bags, etc. etc. etc. Nothing should be too outrageous for you packaging whatever it is you're sending to protect it. Double sealing all the edges, using impact sensitive tape, using the strapping tape, using the metal strapping kits, and on and on. Okay am I a little overboard when it comes to these things, yes probably. How many things that I send even if they are beat up by any packaging company sense I started these "procedures" have I had? Zero, so that for me speaks for itself. I am not saying its foolproof or you wont send or receive a package that gets damaged, but everything you can do to protect that item helps. Also be sure you have double or triple or how many every extra address labels in all the packages, taped or glued or whatever. I cant tell you how many packages mysteriously have labels ripped off the front and sense they cant identify it, it goes into the dead bin or whatever nomenclature they use. Take pictures of what you're shipping, this helps show the condition when it was sent. Take pictures of you sealing the package, labeling it etc. This can help identify the package by the look and shape should it get "lost'. I use that term loosely of course. Finally remember, if it's worth insuring it's worth packing to the point of over packing. You might go your whole life and never be part of the 10% who has something happen to your package, but if it happens just once and they way you packed it or had it packed before it was sent to you saves the item, it will all be worth it.

    When you order something special from someone or a retailer, tell them you are willing to pay for double boxing or better packaging, etc. Take the time to express to them how important that is for you to stay their customer, etc. You will find the majority of them are more then willing to do those kinds of things for extra money. They much rather have the item get to you in one piece, then play the file a claim and wait game.

    I personally ship via the post office and have stuff sent via the post office if it all possible. I am saying, in my case, and in my case only and this varies a lot with your local post office and the central hub of the country it goes to, that I have had the best fortune with them sending and receiving packages. That said I do follow these "procedures" for packing, and I do select many of the alternatives such as certified, registered, express, etc.

    Anyway just some ideas and of course your mileage may vary.
     
  19. Patrick M

    Patrick M Subgenius

    Location:
    US
    Suggest strapping important parcels to lemmings. Have them drop off packages on way to ocean.

    No, seriously, I was trying to be funny with that comment. And failing. Point being, I've heard bad things about every carrier I know of.

    Personally, I've shipped turntables successfully to D.C. and to somewhere in the Pacific NW via UPS. The one to D.C. had a dust cover -- gingerly double boxed by itself and shipped separately by yours truly -- and made it intact.

    Side note: There is nothing I hate to prepare for shipping more than a 'table!
     
  20. Ronald

    Ronald Senior Member

    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    [Note added after posting:
    Be sure to use a vendor that packs the merchandise with due care. In my most humble experiences, Elusive Disk and Better Records pack their shipments very well. Elusive Disk double packs their LPs and CDs. The others are second tier, but much better than what I perceive to be the industry average.]

    First pay by credit card. I have had to file a number of "no charge authorizations" because of poor or no delivery. American Express has honored all of my claims with no problems. I have not tried Mastercard or Visa, so I cannot comment about those two.

    Second, the vendor is responsible for reasonable delivery. If there is a default delivery choice it may be the one to use because you can use their own policy against them. The Vendor is also responsible for filing a claim for damages. If the vendor won't file the claim, don't purchase from them again and seek relief from the credit card company by not authorizing a charge.


    Third if you think UPS will leave the package at the front door, request a signature for delivery. At that point you can determine if you want the package or not. In my experience, they have accepted refusals with no problems other than a few groans. I can take the groans as the shipper/vendor can see for himself the condition of the package.

    Realize these services will take advantage of you if you let them. Don't give up and keep at them. They know their chances in Small Claims Court are not great if you have sufficient documentation such as photos, receipts and paper work for claims. Small Claims Courts usually do not allow lawyers, at least in my experience. A no-show for date of appearance guarantees problems for the big boys.

    Good luck and be tenacious.
     
  21. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialist™

    Location:
    B.C.
    Thanks Ronald for a concise understanding of the shipping companys policies and a strategic formula in which to make the rules work for you as opposed to against you. Nice job.;)
     
  22. Highway Star

    Highway Star New Member

    Location:
    eastern us
    I have been shipping rare antique/vintage auto parts through UPS for over 20 years. And I'm talking 1000's of very fragile, odd-shaped parts with only about a dozen damage claims. Of those 12 times it was because I did not package the item correctly. Never in all those years has UPS lost a single package. Now that I'm selling on eBay I go the extra mile in packaging. Just got an e-mail from a lady who jokingly asked how many rolls of tape I used in packaging her order. I buy a fair amount of goodies through the mail from records to guitars and amps. In most cases people package things half-ass! There are numerous vintage guitar sellers who even state in their ads they will no longer ship by UPS. I can guarantee you the reason they do that is because somewhere along the line they packaged a fragile pre-war Martin guitar improperly and it had a 1975 Cadillac bumper drop off the conveyor belt making splintery fire-wood out of it. When you buy from someone ask them how the item will be packaged. Will it be double boxed. What grade of cardboard do they use etc. I'm not saying UPS doesn't make blunders, they do, but more than likely it comes down do an inexperienced shipper/packager.
     
  23. lpcd2001

    lpcd2001 New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    san jose
    Packing by the seller

    Hi, the seller did use the hard cardboard box designed for shipping LPs. I think it is the Bags Unlimited box. He could have padded the LP package better. The damage indicates that some corner of a very big box was leaned against the LP package which may be in free standing. The result is the LP package was BENT in the middle, wrecking both the carton and the LP inside it.

    I have bought and sold many LPs and have never seen anything like this before. The seller is filing a claim and will let me know how this is resolved. The LP is the Beach Boys, DCC re-issue. Sigh. (I was told that UPS will handle stuff VERY carefully if the items were insured for high value.)
     
  24. KLM

    KLM Senior Member

    I have shipped and received many packages over the years and have used USPS, UPS, Fed Ex and Airbourne. I have had small incidents with all except the USPS. I have a friendly post woman and prefer to ship things through them. I haven't had the disasters that some speak of but I did have a very annoying claim issue with UPS.

    Anyway. my vote is for the USPS and that's my story and I'm sticking to it....
     
  25. sgb

    sgb Senior Member

    Location:
    Baton Rouge
    I've had similar horror stories about UPS.

    I do not buy from sellers who do not offer me a shipping option. That is why I buy NOTHING from Chad Kasem. If APO has something that no one else does, I've just learned to do without.
     
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