Steely Dan CDs Different Masterings: Gaucho

I like the Japanese 32XD mastering #8 best so far.

 

bump

 

I just picked up a Japan-for-USA pressing. It has the usual early artwork, no barcode, etc. It's a CSR pressing, with "CSR COMPACT DISC" x3 embossed in the hub. The matrix is: DIDX-56 11A4.

Peak levels are similar to mastering 3, but not quite the same:

91.5 / 86.3 / 89.9 / 83.0 / 81.3 / 84.0 / 82.9

I should mention that I also have a Japan-for-USA JVC pressing, which is mastering 8 (and obviously a different mastering, going by the numbers).

 

Very interesting. It's been quite a while since I listened to my Japan-for-U.S. Gaucho discs, but I didn't hear a difference between them. I'm not saying that I have different masterings than you. Maybe the differences are subtle. Have you compared your discs?

 

I've just made a casual comparison. The only obvious difference is the slight change in level -- which makes it difficult for me to trust any other perceived, subtle differences. Perhaps headphones might help in this case.

If I get really ambitious I'll post a couple clips.

 

I recently found an older US MCA copy for $5 with a barcode (7674-17220-2) on the back. It's an MCAD-37220 DIDX 56 catalog number. The matrix is MCAD37220 0376017280 Mfg by Matsushida Universal Media Services with IFPI 2A08 on the plastic inner ring.

Surprisingly, the EAC values are that of Mastering #7:

Track 1

Filename Track01.wav

Peak level 96.9 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 1CCA52EF
Accurately ripped (confidence 7) [C2E4DB60]
Copy OK

Track 2

Filename Track02.wav

Peak level 88.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC EC6E2EE1
Accurately ripped (confidence 7) [2AA95E7A]
Copy OK

Track 3

Filename Track03.wav

Peak level 94.9 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 3F984CB4
Accurately ripped (confidence 7) [07F6D2C2]
Copy OK

Track 4

Filename Track04.wav

Peak level 97.7 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 9B6F3890
Accurately ripped (confidence 7) [F5C26FB1]
Copy OK

Track 5

Filename Track05.wav

Peak level 92.1 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 976C4D7C
Accurately ripped (confidence 7) [98B2311E]
Copy OK

Track 6

Filename Track06.wav

Peak level 95.2 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC B0D01CB4
Accurately ripped (confidence 7) [99D5CF93]
Copy OK

Track 7

Filename Track07.wav

Peak level 90.4 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Test CRC 7B36FCBE
Accurately ripped (confidence 7) [9DAC5182]
Copy OK

 

I have a 32XD that is the same as Daves and I also have a CSR pressing that has the same mastering as PlusMinus's disc

 

Dale, I agree with you on this and recently sold my VDP copy and kept the Japan for US.

 

It's been awhile since I listened to the VDP Gaucho disc, but it sounded fine to me. Then again, the VDP Aja disc sounded good to me until I compared it to the 32XD and Japan-for-U.S. pressings. It was immediately obvious at that point that the VDP disc was muffled and lacked dynamics. I keep it because it's the first Japanese issue and is very rare, but the sound is lacking.

 

Another update:

Mastering 1:
98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8

MCA Remaster 2000 (made in EU) 112055-2 LC01056 / Matrix: 00088 112 055-2 01+51082250

Mastering 2:
90.2/89.4/89.0/89.4/89.4/92.2/89.7

MCA CD layer of SACD 2003 (made in EU) 0602498605103 / Matrix: VS024-L1 06024 986051-0
MCA CD layer of SACD 2003 (made in US) B0000868-36 / Matrix: S28510-C 3

Mastering 3:
91.5/86.4/90.0/83.0/81.7/84.0/82.9

MCA 1984 USA CD MCAD-37220 DIDX 56 / Matrix: 11340-I5-9274-1-M
MCA Austria MCD 01814/DMCL 1814 / Matrix: MCD-01814 13 B3 MASTERED BY DADC AUSTRIA
MCA Austria MCD 01814/DMCL 1814 / Matrix: MCD-01814 13 A6 MASTERED BY DADC AUSTRIA

Mastering 4:
89.1/80.6/87.1/83.9/82.2/89.1/82.0

MCA Citizen boxed set MCAD4-10981 / Matrix: MCAD410981 Y3C1C MFD BY JVC

Mastering 5:
96.9/88.0/94.9/92.7/92.1/95.2/90.4

MCA 1984 USA CD MCAD-37220 DIDX 56 / Matrix: MCAD-37220-3RE 1C1I MFD BY JVC (the 1I is scratched in the disc, it could be a / instead of an I)

Mastering 6:
75.9/70.8/79.3/78.8/77.9/83.0/83.1

MCA 198? UK CD MCLD 19146 (on artwork) DMCL 1814 (on disc) / Matrix: DMCL 1814 . MASTERED BY NIMBUS

Mastering 7 (nearly identical to #5, except for track 4):
96.9/88.0/94.9/97.7/92.1/95.2/90.4

Russia 2132/M3-97 / Matrix: JPCD 9710576
MCA USA MCAD-37220 DIDX 56 / Matrix: MCAD37220 0376017280 Mfg by Matsushida Universal Media Services

Mastering 8:
81.2/74.7/82.8/83.7/82.4/85.7/91.2

MCA US MCAD-37220 DIDX 56 (artwork) MCAD-37220 'Manufactured in Japan for MCA (disc) / Matrix: MCAD 37220 2 S3E21
MCA 1986 Japan for Japan 32XD-394 / Matrix: 32XD-394 11A3 +++++

Mastering 9:
79.2/78.3/78.0/79.4/77.8/78.7/77.3

MFSL UDCD 545 Japan

Mastering 10:
100.0/100.0/100.0/97.8/99.3/100.0/96.1

Victor Music, VDP-26

Mastering 11 (similar to mastering 3, though not identical):
91.5/86.3/89.9/83.0/81.3/84.0/82.9

MCA Japan for USA - CSR COMPACT DISC / Matrix: DIDX-56 11A4

 

mine is mastering 3: MCA 1984 USA CD MCAD-37220 DIDX 56

but it has "Mfg. for BMG" on this disk.....and "RE4 1D" after the 37220 on the inner ring??

is this one not as desirable as the other mastering 3's and can someone let me know the 2 or 3 most desirable (for sound quality) of the identified masterings....

 

I found a copy today that is very close to mastering 3:

Catalog No. MCAD-37220 DIDX 56/Matrix No. 160001 B-5501 A

91.5/86.4/90.0/83.0/82.1/84.0/82.9

 

Another update. Mastering 3, 11 and 12 are very similar but not exactly identical. I feel a discussion similar to the one with Aja CDs coming up.

Mastering 1:
98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8

MCA Remaster 2000 (made in EU) 112055-2 LC01056 / Matrix: 00088 112 055-2 01+51082250

Mastering 2:
90.2/89.4/89.0/89.4/89.4/92.2/89.7

MCA CD layer of SACD 2003 (made in EU) 0602498605103 / Matrix: VS024-L1 06024 986051-0
MCA CD layer of SACD 2003 (made in US) B0000868-36 / Matrix: S28510-C 3

Mastering 3:
91.5/86.4/90.0/83.0/81.7/84.0/82.9

MCA 1984 USA CD MCAD-37220 DIDX 56 / Matrix: 11340-I5-9274-1-M
MCA Austria MCD 01814/DMCL 1814 / Matrix: MCD-01814 13 B3 MASTERED BY DADC AUSTRIA
MCA Austria MCD 01814/DMCL 1814 / Matrix: MCD-01814 13 A6 MASTERED BY DADC AUSTRIA
MCA 1984 USA CD MCAD-37220 DIDX 56 / Matrix: 37220 RE4 1D

Mastering 4:
89.1/80.6/87.1/83.9/82.2/89.1/82.0

MCA Citizen boxed set MCAD4-10981 / Matrix: MCAD410981 Y3C1C MFD BY JVC

Mastering 5:
96.9/88.0/94.9/92.7/92.1/95.2/90.4

MCA 1984 USA CD MCAD-37220 DIDX 56 / Matrix: MCAD-37220-3RE 1C1I MFD BY JVC (the 1I is scratched in the disc, it could be a / instead of an I)

Mastering 6:
75.9/70.8/79.3/78.8/77.9/83.0/83.1

MCA 198? UK CD MCLD 19146 (on artwork) DMCL 1814 (on disc) / Matrix: DMCL 1814 . MASTERED BY NIMBUS

Mastering 7 (nearly identical to #5, except for track 4):
96.9/88.0/94.9/97.7/92.1/95.2/90.4

Russia 2132/M3-97 / Matrix: JPCD 9710576
MCA USA MCAD-37220 DIDX 56 / Matrix: MCAD37220 0376017280 Mfg by Matsushida Universal Media Services

Mastering 8:
81.2/74.7/82.8/83.7/82.4/85.7/91.2

MCA US MCAD-37220 DIDX 56 (artwork) MCAD-37220 'Manufactured in Japan for MCA (disc) / Matrix: MCAD 37220 2 S3E21
MCA 1986 Japan for Japan 32XD-394 / Matrix: 32XD-394 11A3 +++++

Mastering 9:
79.2/78.3/78.0/79.4/77.8/78.7/77.3

MFSL UDCD 545 Japan

Mastering 10:
100.0/100.0/100.0/97.8/99.3/100.0/96.1

Victor Music, VDP-26

Mastering 11 (similar to mastering 3, though not identical):
91.5/86.3/89.9/83.0/81.3/84.0/82.9

MCA Japan for USA - CSR COMPACT DISC / Matrix: DIDX-56 11A4

Mastering 12 (similar to mastering 3, though not identical):
91.5/86.4/90.0/83.0/82.1/84.0/82.9

MCA USA? MCAD-37220 DIDX 56 / Matrix: 160001 B-5501 A

 

Somebody posted the famous Metal Leg article about wrong MCA CDs again in another thread, which made me want to check out that speed issue with the Gaucho CDs which Roger Nichols mentions. The results are quite interesting. The timings listed are from the first drum beat of "Babylon Sisters" to the first note of the final audible "You've got to shake it baby" during the fade.

MCA US 198? 37220 DIDX 56: 5:43.5 (Mastering 3)
MCA EU 1993 Citizen boxed set MCAD4-10981: 5:41.1 (Mastering 4)
MCA EU 2000 remaster 112 055-2: 5:41.1 (Mastering 1)
MCA EU 2003 SACD 0602498605103 (CD layer): 5:43.5 (Mastering 2)

So, the speed issue Roger Nichols mentions does exist. Comparing the 2000 remaster to the CD layer of the SACD reveals that it still has not been resolved. Now the question is, which timing is correct? I'd like to see the same timings for all masterings.

 

Another update: all of the SACD layers (including the remixed 5.1 layer) match the 5:43.5 time. All at the wrong speed? Or is the Citizen/2000 remaster at the wrong speed?

 

The article seems to suggest that the faster speed is incorrect.

 

Yes, the fact that the 5.1 mix has the slower speed suggests the same thing. That's what puzzles me. It means that they didn't correct that issue for the Citizen boxed set and the 2000 remaster? Why make such a fuss about it in that Metal Leg article and then leave it unchanged until the 2003 SACD?

 

Has anyone ever seen the MCA version of Gaucho that is "color reversed"? Another words, where the regular version is silver with black print, I have one where the labal side is black with silver lettering. It is however,the same master as the original Japan for USA version. Just kinda wondered if it is rare because it's the only one I've ever seen.

 

Me too.

 

I just received a made in USA MCA cd matching Black Elk's peak readings and description (no barcode, etc.) except mine ends with a 12 etched at the end of the matrix.

Regarding the speed issues, this disc contains the slower speed "Babylon Sisters" mentioned in mdekoning's post quoted above. I also compared the speed to the Gold cd compilation, which is mentioned in the Metal Leg article (http://www.granatino.com/sdresource/18crime.htm) as using the correct tapes, and the speed on that matches the time on this with the slower "Babylon Sisters". So I think it's safe in assuming that this version (96.9 % - 88.0 % - 94.9 % - 92.7 % - 92.1 % - 95.2 % - 90.4 %) used the correct master (or at least a tape playing at the correct speed!).

 

I just picked this one up off eBay:

MCA Germany MCD 01814/DMCL 1814 / Matrix: Sono Press K-0066/ MCD01814 B

Mastering 3:
91.5/86.4/90.0/83.0/81.7/84.0/82.9

Babylon Sisters timing (as per parameters): 5:43.5

The "Sono Press" in the matrix is a logo. I've never seen it before.

 

Here's another mastering #3:

811 814-2 MCD 01814/DMCL 1814 / Matrix:MCD01814 811 814-2 01

Inner ring reads Made in Germany by Universal M & L and also has something that looks like a bar code i.e it looks like a fairly recent pressing. Copyright information on the back cover has years 1980 and 1984. So maybe this 1984 (?) mastering was available in Europe until the remaster and thus should be not that hard to find.

 

We need one of those nice patented color-coded Excel tables.

 

MCAD-37220 DIDX 56 No Barcode

Manufactured in Japan for MCA Records Inc

MCAD 37220 2 M2E (2 other digits which follow could be 12)

 

Bumping this thread on account of HDtracks.com just released Gaucho in 24/96...

BUT

...it appears that it is sourced from the 2000 remaster. I almost jumped on it but after reading this thread I'd hesitate to pay 18 bucks for a high res version of an inferior master.