Steely Dan CDs Different Masterings: Pretzel Logic

Yes, except for track 1, your copy (Mastering 3) has the same mastering as the original Japanese version (Mastering 4). As mentioned above, it is likely that the mastering on track 1 (Rikki…) is identical as well, except for a click removal at 3:46, but this has not been confirmed yet.

I can upload a .wav sample of the last part of Rikki… on Mastering 4 so that you can compare with Mastering 3 on your disk. It will have to wait until tomorrow though…

As for sound quality, I'm very happy with my copy of Mastering 4

 

Here comes a sample of 'Rikki Don't Lose That Number' from Mastering 3. I have cut out the first 3 minutes and 30 seconds of the song, so 3:46 corresponds to 0:16 in the sample.
Rikki_3-30_Mastering_3.wav

 

SORRY, I goofed and misnamed the sample above. I have of course uploaded a sample from Mastering 4 as promised. I will rename the track, upload it again, and make a new post below.

Could some moderator please remove this post and the previous one (#77). Thank you!

 

Here comes a sample of 'Rikki Don't Lose That Number' from Mastering 4. I have cut out the first 3 minutes and 30 seconds of the song, so 3:46 corresponds to 0:16 in the sample.
Rikki_3-30_Mastering_4.wav

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears that the very first CD releases in the US of Pretzel Logic were the Japan-for-US, catalog number MCAD-37042/DIDX-371, matrix number containing "MCAD 37042", back cover of artwork having actual artwork (not plaid), artwork having copyright dates of "1974, 1985", front insert having album credits.

From EAC:

Track | Start | Length | Start sector | End sector
---------------------------------------------------------
1 | 0:00.37 | 4:32.70 | 37 | 20506
2 | 4:33.32 | 3:39.08 | 20507 | 36939
3 | 8:12.40 | 3:07.70 | 36940 | 51034
4 | 11:20.35 | 3:20.30 | 51035 | 66064
5 | 14:40.65 | 2:49.42 | 66065 | 78781
6 | 17:30.32 | 2:42.70 | 78782 | 91001
7 | 20:13.27 | 1:32.43 | 91002 | 97944
8 | 21:45.70 | 4:31.30 | 97945 | 118299
9 | 26:17.25 | 2:17.52 | 118300 | 128626
10 | 28:35.02 | 2:44.30 | 128627 | 140956
11 | 31:19.32 | 2:36.60 | 140957 | 152716

Peak levels from EAC: 90.6/90.3/81.6/84.0/56.9/86.7/87.8/99.1/98.5/88.4/85.2

"Rikki" includes the full intro.

I'm not sure how long the Japan-for-US was in print, but it seems to have been replaced by the US-for-US, catalog number MCAD-31165, matrix number also containing "MCAD 37042", back cover is plaid, copyright date just "1974", front insert has only song titles and producer's credit, same mastering as above, including same EAC peaks (of course) and same track start/lengths as above.

I compared my copies of the above two CDs, and they completely cancel in null tests for all tracks, but the index points (the points where the tracks begin and end) are all shifted by exactly 111 samples from one pressing to the other. Doubtful that you'll hear a difference between them.

 

To add to "Crap's" post in #80, I just bought a Japan for US CD of this one this week and it does sound the same as my U.S. Plaid backed disc. I noticed no major differences.

I think that the Japan for U.S. will go on my shelf, since it does have the original back cover artwork, instead of that lame plaid deal.

Chris C

 

FYI - The Japan-for-US and US-for-US plaid back (matrix number 37042) both have the full intro for "Rikki Don't Lose That Number", and both have the glitch in the right channel at 3:46.

In case you're wondering what such a glitch looks like, here are three screen shots at different resolutions. Neat-o.

 

My CD was purchased from CDJapan, details as follows:

MCA UICY-3023


94.2/98.7/98.7/98.8/88.8/90.1/98.8/98.8/96.3/98.7/98.8

 

Mastering 1 (intro to "Rikki" included):
89.7/90.3/91.1/100.0/79.6/76.9/92.4/94.7/85.9/89.9/97.3

MCA Remaster 1999 MCD-11917 / Matrix: 00088 111 917-2 03 / 51042997 (Made in Germany by Universal M&L)
MCA USA? MCAD-31165 (plaid back) / Matrix: ?
MCA USA? MCAD-31165 (full artwork) / Matrix: 31165-1 2D

Mastering 2: (intro to "Rikki" missing!, level adjusted copy of mastering 1)
88.6/89.2/90.0/98.8/78.7/76.1/91.4/93.6/84.9/88.9/96.2

MCA Citizen boxed set MCAD 4-10981 / Matrix: MCAD 4109812 Y1D3A MFD BY JVC

Mastering 3 (intro to "Rikki" included):
57.7/90.3/81.6/84.0/56.9/86.7/87.8/99.1/98.5/88.4/85.2

MCA USA MCAD-37042 DIDY-371 (CRC) / Matrix: DIDX 371 31A2
MCA USA MCAD-31165 CRC (full artwork) / Matrix: 1AMCD31165 04 B

Mastering 4 (intro to "Rikki" included, same as mastering 3 except for track 1):
90.6/90.3/81.6/84.0/56.9/86.7/87.8/99.1/98.5/88.4/85.2

MCA Germany MCD 01781 DMCL 1781 (BMG Ariola) / Matrix: MCD01781 50336 173 01, Made In Germany
MCA USA MCAD-31165 Compact Disc/Compact Price - Plaid back / Matrix: MCAD-37042-1T 111
MCA Germany 250 495-2 (DIDX-371 MCAD-37042) / Matrix: 250 495-2 SRC-01
MCA USA MCAD-31165 Compact Disc/Compact Price - Plaid back / Matrix: MCAD-37042-A3 C13
MCA Japan 20P2-2109 Plaid back no UPC (it's on the OBI) / Matrix: 20P2-2109 1M TO
MCA Japan for USA MCAD-37042 DIDX-371 / Matrix: MCAD 37042 S2C11
MCA ???? MCD 01781, DMCL 1781, 811 781-2 / Matrix: MCD01781 50336 173 01 >

Mastering 5 (intro to "Rikki" missing)
94.2/94.1/94.2/94.2/84.7/86.0/94.3/94.3/91.9/94.2/94.3

MCA USA? Remaster 1999 MCAD-11917 / Matrix: Mfg by Universal, MCAD11917 9066613138

Mastering 6 (intro to "Rikki" included, similar to mastering 2 but not identical)
89.7/89.3/90.0/98.8/78.8/76.1/91.4/93.6/84.9/88.9/96.2

MCA Citizen boxed set MCAD 4-10981 / Matrix: MCAD4-10981B 0096016130

Mastering 7 (intro to Rikki?, level adjusted copy of mastering 4)
88.2/88.0/79.4/81.7/55.4/84.4/85.4/96.6/95.9/86.0/82.9

Mastering 8 (clone from mastering 5?):
94.2/98.7/98.7/98.8/88.8/90.1/98.8/98.8/96.3/98.7/98.8

MCA UICY-3023 ???

 

Sorry about posting to an older thread, but I have a US 1999 Remaster that doesn't seem to match any of the others listed. So - for completeness sake:

Spine: MCAD-11917
Matrix: MFG BY MATSUSHITA UNIVERSAL MEDIA SERVICES
MCAD11917 9079714129

EAC: 94.2/94.1/94.2/94.2/84.7/86.0/94.3/94.3/91.9/94.2/94.3

This would seem to match Master 5 in the list, however, here's the difference: The intro to Rikki is *present*. The total time of track 1 is 4:32.47 according to EAC. This is in line with my older copy of Pretzel that has the intro (4:32.70 according to EAC).

So - according to what I've read in this thread, there is a 1999 Roger Nichols remaster that *does* have the Rikki intro

For completeness sake, I'll post the data to my old copy too, since it's not listed either.

Spine: MCAD-31165
Matrix: MCAD - 37042 - A3C 111T
(Note: this was extremely hard to read - pressed into the matrix)
Made in USA - Plaid back + UPC

EAC: 90.6/90.3/81.6/84.0/56.9/86.7/87.8/99.1/98.5/88.4/85.2

This appears to be mastering 4.

Cheers,
Paul

 

This is exactly the same copy I have.

 

I don't have EAC to compare the above numbers, but my disc has the same spine and matrix numbers etc. but on my disc I can clearly see the matrix...

MCAD - 37042 A3C 110T

also, there's ADD ON the disc and plaid back along with UPC.

I hear the 'pop' on Any Major Dude but I don't hear a glitch on Rikki at 3:46. I'm going to look at the waveform to see if I can spot it like was posted earlier.

So...is this supposed to be the 'original' Nichols master or the inferior one he talks about ? I'm still confused after reading everything here.

 

You can use the freeware CUETools (run in "verify" mode) to determine EAC peak values if you have ripped the files to your computer.

 

OK..so maybe I didn't hear it too clearly, but my made in the USA disc I mention above does have the glitch. Not sure if CrapfromthePast posted his from the Made in Japan for US or the made in USA, but he says they're the same.

Crap's first, then mine...both are in the right channel about 3:46.590

Oh and GreenDrazi, I just had done 'Rikki' for my comparison of the waveform. Thanks though...

 

If it helps, the MCA Steely Dan Greatest Hits CD (the 80+ minute one) uses level-shifted clones of the original CD mastering. Rikki has the glitch at 3:46, Any Major Dude has the pop, and everything else is otherwise identical. It also uses the SH mastered tracks from Katy Lied (and probably Aja too, but that's hard to determine).

 

Without the EAC, I can't say exactly, but it sounds like you might have Mastering 4, which is the Roger Nichols original master without the Rikki "glitch". That - I believe - is considered a good master.

Cheers,
Paul

 

Thanks for posting this. I just picked up this Greatest Hits CD (from Canada) and was wondering about the mastering.

I don't want to derail this thread, but I can post EACs from this in a separate thread if folks are interested.

I'll listen to the Pretzel tracks and see if they match the ones from my older Pretzel Logic CD (i.e. glitch & pop).

Cheers,
Paul

 

The EAC peak levels of the Greatest Hits CD won't match those of the original albums. The peak levels are a bit lower on the Greatest Hits CD. But, normalize the files in an audio editor, and you'll see that they come from the same mastering.

 

Yup! I was just looking at the matching glitch in Rikki with the EAC waveform editor in both editions. Thanks for the heads up!

Cheers,
Paul

 

Another mastering 4: matrix is MCAD-31165 2B. MFG BY JVC.

This has ADD SPAR.

 

I had a quick question regarding an early pressing of Pretzel Logic. The CD I have is a US JVC plant pressing with a grey plaid back, catalog number MCAD-31165. Around one minute and six seconds into Rikki Don't Lose That Number, there is a very noticeable gap (like someone pressed a "pause" button) that lasts for half a second. I'm not sure how else to describe it because it doesn't sound like a pop or a click.

Anyone else with this particular pressing notice this as well, or do I just have a defective copy? Other than this error the disc sounds absolutely wonderful!

 

Bump.

Still wondering about this...

 

Mine has the same EAC peak level with mastering #1:

1974 MCA Records Inc, 1999 MCA Records Inc. Intro into "Rikki" included.
On the data side of the disc : matrix 00088 111 917-2 04 * 51042997 Made in Germany by EDC
On the label side of the disc : LC 01056 BIEM/MCPS 111 917-2 MCD-11917
Back cover (full artwork) : Barcode 0 08811 19172 6 Above barcode : 111 917-2 MCD-11917 LC 01056 UN 900
Liner notes does not say about who's the remastering engineering, but on the front side of the back cover there's a remark : Digitally Remastered

 

I'm trying to to solve the Rikki mystery (Mastering 3 vs. Mastering 4).



Statistics for: MCAD-37042
Number of samples: 12036360
Duration: 4:33
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Left Right

Peak Value: -0.85 dB --- -1.55 dB
Avg RMS: -16.93 dB --- -17.21 dB
DR channel: 12.50 dB --- 12.14 dB
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Official DR Value: DR12

Samplerate: 44100 Hz
Channels: 2
Bits per sample: 16
Bitrate: 759 kbps
Codec: FLAC
================================================================================

Statistics for: MCD 01781
Number of samples: 12068700
Duration: 4:34
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Left Right

Peak Value: -0.85 dB --- -1.55 dB
Avg RMS: -16.98 dB --- -17.26 dB
DR channel: 12.50 dB --- 12.14 dB
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Official DR Value: DR12

Samplerate: 44100 Hz
Channels: 2
Bits per sample: 16
Bitrate: 754 kbps
Codec: FLAC
================================================================================

Looks different. I guess all there is left is the ear test.

 

No - all there is left is the null test! Can you do one?

I bet they're the same.