DCC Archive Steely Dan MFSL Gaucho & Aja

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Ben, Sep 30, 2001.

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  1. Ben

    Ben New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Phoenix, Arizona
    These are the only "Dan's" available on Gold MOFI CD...any thoughts, comments and, most especially reviews....?

    Thanks!

    Ben
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Unknown

    Unknown Guest

    Go for the regular remaster! Best sound and best value!!!
     
  3. rjp

    rjp Forum Resident

    Location:
    ohio
    ben,

    i've read in a number of places that the mfsl steely dan titles are NOT from the original masters.

    they do, however, sound wonderful.

    rjp
     
  4. Unknown

    Unknown Guest

    I do not own any Dan gold, I only have the remasters.

    But the prevailing viewpoint seems to be that the aluminum remaster are the best, both sound and money-wise.
     
  5. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialistâ„¢

    Location:
    Greater Vancouver
    Hi,
    I don't know about the MFSL's or the remasters but, I'd like to hear a comparison between mine (MCA Ultimate Masterdisc) and the others as I know that the MCA sounds incredible and not too bright, great imaging, and crystal clear. :D
     
  6. JPartyka

    JPartyka I Got a Home on High

    I used to own both MFSL Dan CDs ... I sold 'em both on eBay when I heard the new, standard remasters. Much better, to my ears ...
     
  7. Grant

    Grant A Musical Free-Spirit

    Location:
    Arizona
    As I stated in the last Steely Dan thread, the latest remasters are the ones to get. Period.
     
  8. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    Hyannis Ma
    Grant's right. Box set is great, but skip it an go for the clear-spined newest remasters.
     
  9. Paul C.

    Paul C. Active Member

    Location:
    Australia
    I have to agree. What I want to know is - how did they get the latest remasters (and the box set for that matter) to be so quiet?

    In comparison, the Mofis have very prominent tape hiss. Usually, I would expect that presence of a bit of hiss means that the transfer was done stright with no doctoring. Yet the newer remasters are so good.
     
  10. Grant

    Grant A Musical Free-Spirit

    Location:
    Arizona
    Paul, the tape hiss could mean that the MoFi CD's are not from the absolute masters. As I stated before, Roger Nichols dumped the original tapes to digital in the early 80's. They had been tucked away ever since. Roger pulled the original first generation tapes for the latest remasters. I think Glenn Meadows used the digital copies for the box.

    If the tapes had been put safely away since the early 80's it's highly possible that MoFi got copies.

    Anyway, this is what I understand. We could ask Mr. Nichols. He has been SD's chief engineer since the beginning so he would know.
     
  11. Mal

    Mal Phorum Physicist

    Hi all,

    Am I the only one who prefers the box to the new remasters?

    The Glen Meadows mastering sounds rich and warm, with the right tonal balance for all the subtleties to be able to reveal themselves naturally.

    The new masters, while very detailed, seem a little on the bright side to me. This tends to make for a less subtle listening experience. I wonder if the "cloud" has been shaved off in the mastering process?

    Just my two-cents,

    Malc S

    [ October 10, 2001: Message edited by: Malc S ]
     
  12. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    Hyannis Ma
    The box is a wonderful "Survival" kit for the Dan. I own it, and I really do listen to it a lot. Great food for the CD changer in the car - Less filler, longer discs, continuity unbroken. However, the latest remasters with the clear-spine and enhanced (albeit simple) artwork- these have more detail, better soundstage but brighter yes.

    All basic remasters, even Japanese import "deluxe" models are more bright, possibly to recompensate for bad mixture of lossy modern playback chains and poor speaker systems.

    Next time you go into a Best Buy, ask them if you can audition some of the speakers (just for fun). You'll be suprised at what crap you can possibly buy for over $400/pair. Oooh! Look! Genuine fake metal rivits made to look like the drivers are held in with em!

    I seriously think it's just humanity not paying attention to what we already got right, and "cheepness" setting in, the rest of the world has to compensate it. Woah, be it the frugal audiophile, for he who is cheap, may be losing his steak at better sound.

    More for mee!

    [ October 10, 2001: Message edited by: Sckott ]
     
  13. pigmode

    pigmode Active Member

    Location:
    HNL
    What exactly is this boxed set that is being refered to?
     
  14. Paul C.

    Paul C. Active Member

    Location:
    Australia
    Grant, your thought that the hiss arises from non-original master tapes makes sense. Interesting ifo about what masters were used for the box and the newer reissues.

    I find the differences between the box and the newer remasters very subtle ideed, but I would have to agree that the newer ones are a tad brighter. To me the box still stands out as an excellent example of remastering from the early 90s - it was way ahead of the earlier versions.

    Having said that, I no longer have the box - I purged a whole lot of stuff earlier this year because I was running out of room, and I always prefer to put on an album and listen to it right through, rather than have to change discs, so I found I was playing the individual reissues rather than the box.
     
  15. Paul C.

    Paul C. Active Member

    Location:
    Australia
    Pig - we're referring to the "Citizen Steely Dan" 4 CD box set, which has every studio track they did, plus a couple of bonus tracks. It was in a box, but I've seen it more recently in a book-style case arrangement, which is more compact.

    BTW, my version of the box had the percussion intro from "Rikki Don't Lose That Number" missing - a mistake in the production that I heard was corrected in later pressing (someone said that they got a replacement from MCA). I wrote to MCA asking for a replacement disc with the intro included, but never heard from them - perhaps because I'm in Australia, it was too hard for them.

    Apparently also some pressings of the new remaster of Pretzel Logic had the intro bit missing too - I auditioned a couple of copies here in Australia, pressed in the EU, and the intro was missing. In the end, I got the Japanese card sleeve issue (same remastering), which has the full track - just thought you should know all that.
     
  16. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    Hyannis Ma
    Some of the Australian pressings are (by in large) different than the US counterparts that look arguably the same, as I've seen many of them for cheep-cheep. ($8 US or so) The Dans you have are in large the incorrect ones, and yes they have corrected the situation. Australia doesn't move like the wind as far as reissues (Like the US does), and often when a US remaster comes out, the Australian stock copies don't change. I've seen WEA Tom Waits that say "Original Masters" but what's inside are the normal WEA Cds that Germany, the US and the UK have had for years. Australia just incorporated the clear-spined tray, that's all, and inside is the regular CD. Marketing can be silly, and deceiving. My box Dan is fine, and yes, they have gone to wallet sized on that box. Sometimes though, like the Canadian "Who's Next", the old reliable version can be more desireable anyway, when a corporate mastering bozo re-does artists catalogues with his laptop and a dat machine. Peter Mew is not the only enemy. It's the equipment and guidelines labels are using sometimes constrict the broad range of sonic possibilities with remasters. It's got to be bright and bold, not warm and flat, otherwize we can't impress teenagers with crappy car stereos and boom boxes.

    MCA is very good about the trade policy, as many MCA discs have slipped by with very strange but quirky problems. They helped in getting me a Who "Sell Out" that skips very strangely in "I can See For Miles", and all you would do is return the CD to quality control.

    **Note - that Who CD would only skip in car changers and some "focus beam" players like early Panasonics and Sonys.

    Another note - EMI is re-releasing "All Things Must Pass" by George Harrison in Digpak format, for retail ease. The Mini-box versions will be soon dried up. If you hesitated, there should be enough for concerned fans...
     
  17. Grant

    Grant A Musical Free-Spirit

    Location:
    Arizona
    What I do hate about the SD box and the latest remasters is that now they keep using the longer version of "FM (No Static At All)" with the sax solo and very bad edit instead of the LP or even the single version with the guitar solo at the end. The only place the original mix appears is on the "A Decade Of Steely Dan" CD, and it's too bright!
     
  18. MCA (US) replaced an incorrectly printed Axis Bold as Love booklet without drama and sent it all the way here to Perth.
    Andy McKaie is the man.
     
  19. Paul C.

    Paul C. Active Member

    Location:
    Australia
    Sckott, you are quite right about the Australian market. Things move slowly, and you have to be careful what you are buying. I see new remasters on the shelves, which are replaced a week later with older versions. Thankfully, most labels are starting to be quicker in releasing new remastered versions - most of them seem to be sourced from Europe, mainly Germany, and are identical to the US versions (eg. Universal stuff and Blue Note, etc). A few big sellers get pressings here (eg. some of the Cat Stevens and the new Simon & Garfunkels). The quality of Australian pressings is good - they sometimes fall a bit short with inferior print quality, but I think sound-wise they are identical to the US or European versions. It's not like a few years ago, where cheap Australian reissues often had dreadful artwork, often hacked and nothing like the reissues released overseas.

    The "Original Masters" series you mentioned (ie. the Tom Waits) is pretty crappy, and has been around a while. Crap artwork, and run-of-the mill sound. As far as I can tell they are just standard remasters as available around the world - they just stuch that label on the spine as a marketing gimmick. Stay away from them, I say.

    Grant, that's interesting about "FM" - wdo you happen to know which version is on the "Then and Now" collection of some years ago? What about the "Showbiz Kids" 2CD set?
     
  20. Grant

    Grant A Musical Free-Spirit

    Location:
    Arizona
    I never heard of a "Then And Now" CD (I'm in the states) but the "Showbiz Kids" CD features all of the latest remastering and has a very good song selection. It's good for those who don't want the box set and just want the best of the best.

    But, it still has that damn longer version of "FM".
     
  21. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    Hyannis Ma
    I had a girlfriend in Melbourne. She was hip the the fact I didn't have time to go down there, and that I couldn't wait to get the AC/DC EMI issues there (Albert Prod's). So, she sent me almost every distinctive AC/DC Cd from Melbourne. She even went into Albert Prods to ask them about the "Who Made Who" 12" single. Those sound great (they mirror the US issues sonically, just different song selections on some of them) and the artwork wasn't skimped on, definately.

    I'm still looking for an Aussie "Back In Black" Lp. Sometimes love doesn't last as long as one's musical interests ;)
     
  22. Paul C.

    Paul C. Active Member

    Location:
    Australia
    Sckott, sounds like that was a rewarding realtionship you had there. I'll keep my eyes peeled for Back in Black on LP.

    Grant, I've been tempted by "Showbiz Kids", it looks good. The "Then and Now" compilation is a single disc best of that came out at about the same time as the Citizen box set. It was put out by MCA, and had nice packaging, with a weird picture of a whole lot of cars standing on their ends (but is it art?). It was remastered, and sounded very good, as I recall. I reckon it had more prominent tape noise, and I also seem to recall it having the intro to "Rikki DOn't Lose That Number".
     
  23. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    Hyannis Ma
    Paul; are you totally without a copy of Pretzel Logic, a good one?
     
  24. ultron9

    ultron9 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Florida, USA
    Hi There,

    Just my two cents on the newest remastering of "Gaucho."

    In comparison to LP pressings and the MoFi Cd,
    I find the new CD to be somwhat bright and overmodulated in terms of high frequency reproduction. it sounds as though there was some tinkering with EQ balances during the remastering process.

    The MoFi, while somewhat rolled the highs, is much better balanced overall, if you increase the volume on a good system, the treble balance remains consistent and not overbearing.

    Oddly, the other titles in the new remaster series through "Aja" are very good - without the overemphasis in the lower treble region.
     
  25. Paul C.

    Paul C. Active Member

    Location:
    Australia
    Sckott, I only have Pretzel Logic on CD, a Japanese remastered copy (includes intro to Rikki).

    I do have a US vinyl copy of the old "Greatest Hits" 2 LP set that covered the period up to and including Aja - I think it was released in the very late 70s, just before Gaucho came out. That set has pretty good sound.

    Also have my old MFSL vinyl copies of Aja and katy Lied, which still sound good.
     
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