Stereo EQ question, for the knowledgeable out there

I've been playing around with my very modest stereo this week (A Denon receiver with two Technics speakers). When I use it against my CD player, my turntable or my Zotac PC via its S/PDIF out, it sounds "meh" - the best way to describe it. A bit hollow sounding, at least to my ears.

I think the reason why it sounds this way to me is because I've also tested this setup with my Cowon D3 DAP. That uses BBE+ and its own EQ technology and, to my ears, it's a significant sonic improvement - a full sound when setup with the EQ I want, not hollow at all and even warm (especially with needle drops).

The problem, however, is that using the D3 is a bit cumbersome and I'd love to be able to get that kind of sound from my other components. So, with all this said, has anyone dealt with BBE Sound Inc. products? (this is the company that Cowon licenses the technology from) They have separate products like equalizers and I'm wondering if anyone has used them and has any opinion on them. In the meantime, they have at least one dealer near me so I'm hoping that I can get a demo in-store, at least.

I'm also wondering if even a standard EQ could be a solution for me. Any suggestions a good "bang for the buck" solution, in that case? I like a deep bass, but not hollow or artificial sounding. My Denon has the standard inputs and outputs, as well as optical and coax.

As always, thanks in advance for any suggestions.

 

This makes know nothing of the commutation facilities of your receiver. Neither its model, nor detailed description of its monitoring function if there is such, nor a good definition photo of its front panel… Nothing to know what an EQ connection circuit might fit it.

 

It's a Denon AVR-3200. I'm pretty green on EQ's in general - my assumption is that the EQ can at least sit inbetween the source and the receiver, correct? The bad in that setup is that only one source can be used, in that setup. But I can live with that as I'd probably just use it with my Zotac PC and use its analog out instead (if the EQ didn't have a optical in).

There is "pre-out" jacks on the back, but not sure if that would work with an EQ.

 

roebeet, get a SAE 180 parametric EQ, they can be had for around $50 to $100 on da bay, works magic with any system, plugs into your tape loop.

 

Thanks for the tip - nothing there now but I'm in no rush. I do have a tape loop on my receiver.

 

It isn’t on the Denen site, and the copy I found on the Net is in German and of very bad definition.
In what I’ve seen in the Denon AVR-3312E2 Manual from their site, I’ve found nothing indicating that there would be a full mode EQ connection possibility.

Yes, but without supplementary measures to take, it’s just like you’ve written:

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How to use an EQ in the full mode in this case? See the following please:

The idea of an inferior but possible realization in such a case where an amp has not “TAPE MONITOR” function is not complicated per se, and it lets listen to programs from different sources and record them, equalized or not (by-passed). But rather complicated to accomplish, for it needs an equalizer having several inputs and its own input selector, difficult to find.

See the block diagram of such a realization below please.



Or, in the last resort, a separate commutation station for several inputs is necessary whose output terminals will be connected to the “LINE IN” terminals of an equalizer not having several inputs and its own input selector.

 

Wiil you please post here photos of what the button or selector(s) for this on the front panel, and the corresponding terminals on its back panel are?

Or describe them in detail.

 

This is from my printed manual. I should probably make my own PDF for all the pages:



There's no diagram on the front buttons, but it's the usual phono/CD/Tape/VCR/Aux buttons, with the ability to change the surround sound settings on the bottom, as well as an analog/digital button.

I'm thinking that the possibilities of using multiple sources might be more trouble than it's worth. My main goal is to try and setup a Squeezebox Touch or my Zotac PC as source (the latter using something like XBMC or similar, remotely controlled via an Android tablet). My CD player wouldn't be used as I'd have my FLAC sources for that, and the TT would still be relegated and a needle drop device, which it has been for many months, now.

I already tested our the XBMC solution, and it does work. But the SQ is the current issue, thus the EQ question. I think I'm just so used to tweaking the EQ on my portable devices that it's something I will need here.

Thanks again.

 

Trust me a nice parametric will sound great, any time you hook some thing up between a componet you will hear a slight diff in the SQ, kinda like a slight mist over, but you'll get used to it ands you can tweek the EQ to match what you want to really bring out, just like your own personal soundboard Hehe!

 

No. Such connection terminals and such tape deck connection mode does NOT automatically indicate that you have what is usually called “tape loop”, i.e. the possibility to monitor the signal from a three head deck’s playback head while recording (i.e. just recorded by its record head).
More, the text says nothing on this possibility. And normally all mfrs do this in such texts. Re-read this in the recording chapter of your text please, whether it’s said you can monitor three-head decks.

The only way to see it surely is to test. With any EQ, three-head tape deck, external reverberator, compressor etc. …

 

Quite right. Just as for the highs. You must know where to stop in everything.

 

Keep in mind that I can just stick the EQ inbetween the main source and the receiver. At least that's my assumption. When I was reading about the tape loop, I was scratching my head about it a bit, like "I'm not really sure how that really works".

On my DAP, I've tweaked the EQ to the point where I can punch up the bass and treble and it doesn't seem to distort the sound. Cowon's JetEffects are very good at this, and with a third-party app like Rockbox (on other DAPs) I can change the pre-cut to help out, as long as I have a good amp to increase the volume. I have a Gigbeat DAP that I actually tried this way, and its was pretty good (better than my CD player) but the Cowon D3 beat them all.

As I mentioned, I'm very green where it comes to stereo components, so this is all good stuff and very helpful. I'm going to mull over the EQ because, as Steve mentioned, it could very well distort the sound. Just because my Cowon isn't affected does not mean that another EQ will work just as well.

 

And BBE is just a gimmick. I remember when Barcus-Berry was originally pushing this thing in the late 1970s/early 1980s. Like Aphex and all those other "sound-enhancement" gimmicks, the reality is that there's no one-size-fits-all setting that will work with all kinds of sounds especially a finished mix. I'm very skeptical that dynamic EQ like this can work, especially in the form of a black box.

 

I do.

“AT LEAST my assumption” means that a system owner seeks for solutions. That are quite possible as I wrote and posted a diagram and explanations.

“MY ASSUMPTION” means that all explanations given are useless and for nothing.

As you can VERY WELL DISTORT THE SOUND WITHOUT ANY EQ, simply by overloading and making clip ANY amplifier and/or loudspeaker, would you mull whether it’s reasonable to use amplifiers and speakers…

 

@Fedot L - I appreciate the previous diagram you posted, but not too sure what to make of your last post (#15 in this thread).

But, I would appreciate you not editing my comments to pieces (especially the second and third quotes) and then critiquing what I meant by them. This is exactly the type of thing that your host asked us not to do. You might want to read that thread.

I posted this thread asking for opinions and hoping for a discussion to learn - but not to be given a lecture on what the meaning of my own posts are.

I would agree with that. I personally like the sound on my Cowon with it on a fairly low setting, but I also know that it's altering the sound. But I'm not a purist - if it sounds good to my ears, then that's what's important to me at least. When I heard my CD player flat and compared it to the Cowon BBE settings, I knew that the latter was "fake", for the lack of a better word. But, I still liked it - I don't think I can change that.

On the Cowon, you can change the BBE settings as needed, so at least it's configurable.

 

Check out the Technics SH-8055 Graphic Equalizer. It's almost transparent. Good bang for your buck. That will only work for analog signals though. EQing in the digital domain is a whole different animal so I don't know what to tell you about your coax/optical outs.

 

Best Equalizers aren't made for consumers. They're made for pros. White Instruments Parametric, used for cutting overemphasized spectrum. Digital EQ, is no White or Pultec.

 

If you like the BBE sound, you can get a standalone sonic maximizer and run anything you want into it. Most folks around here probably wouldn't use one, but if you like it, it's an option:

http://www.bbesound.com/products/sonic-maximizers/vg360.aspx

 

Actually, there are digital recreations of the Pultec as plug-ins:



http://www.uaudio.com/store/equalizers/pultec-eqp1a.html

This is not a physical box: this is a pop-up screen for Pro Tools and other DAQs, used as inserts in channel buses or output busses. And the UA Audio plugs are not cheap.

One can make a valid argument that they don't sound exactly like the hardware, but my experience is that it's hard to find two physical Pultecs that sound exactly right, due to variables at the factory and how they age over time.

There's an awful lot of people who think relying on EQs or magic boxes will improve the sound of everything in their living room. My experience is that 90% of the time, there are other issues like room acoustics and loudspeakers that have to be solved first. The box can't solve these problems (digital or analog).

To the o.p.: I'd say, dump the Technics speakers and get something real, or use really good headphones. That will solve most of your problems right there.

 

@Vidiot -- I actually frequented headfi.org, years ago. My headphones and headphone amp cost six times what my stereo system did. I've only been branching outside of headphones, recently. Thus the questions.

My Cowon + BBE + very moderate stereo system really sounds pretty good, considering the cost. At least I think it does (I know enough that just because it sounds good now, doesn't mean I might not add something later that suddenly improves things significantly). But right now I'm only trying to get that same sound from my other sources, thus my original question about EQ's.

But I am taking all this in - this is all good stuff given that I'm starting from scratch, here.

This is very interesting - it could be right up my alley, if it's similar to what my Cowon is doing. I appreciate the link.

 

Oh yes. Some forums' administration (other than this one) menace with sanctions when someone speaks of sound quality in connection with frequency bandwidth (the direct dependance proved since 1931 and heard by anyone). Others will sanction ones wishing to urge a participant to find his solution of a problem?

It's your own choice to write such posts instead of trying to take possible advantage of recommendations given. And instead of reporting the results…