Stereo Power Amp recommendations (UK)

You'll have to check the spec I'm afraid as I'm not good with that kind of thing. All I will say is the One-Up 500 which I have is superb. I used to have 2x Cyrus X Powers and was thinking of upgrading to the X 300 (4000-odd quid for a pair). Many people at the time said not to bother and steered me towards the Nord. How right they were....

 

How much power is your amp producing?

I was going to spend up to £5000 for a power amp, but do I really have to?
I don't think I do.

If I can get a top quality amplifier with the power to drive my speakers really well for between £2000 and £3000, or maybe a little less, then I've done well.

I just need a lot of time to demo them, which I don't really have, but which I will have to find somehow.

 

Pair of Quad 909 mono amps (300W) for £1500 in Portsmouth ATM... should do the trick!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172751429293

 

I'm a guitar player first. audiophile second. So valve amps seemed natural choice.
I got Quad 22/IIs first. then changed pre amp to a Copeland then Croft, then changed it all to the Prima Luna
though I still have 4 x Quad IIs. I guess about 25 years.

You're in the UK, loads of great used valve amps available, I'd always at least look
for an old Radford 15w or 25w first. still the best amps I have heard at any price, but rare.

 

The Nord One UP is getting my attention.
As the company is only an hour away from where I live, I will be booking a demo to attend in the next few weeks.
From the reviews these class D amps sound as good as class A, and for not much money!

 

Strange, so many recommendations without context. It's a classic 'it depends' answer if ever there was one. A classic case of no absolutes in hifi.

The three features that are important in your decision are: match to your speakers, your room, and your ears.

Your speakers look a relatively easy drive so there's no need to go muscle power over the top.

If I were you I'd go do some listening first and get a better appreciation of what's out there first. As you probably know already, a 30w all class A amp is likely going to sound different from a 200w class d amp.

Also reviews and recommendations are only really useful if you know the full context of the reviewers room and system, and if they have similar tastes to yours, otherwise it's interesting but not necessarily useful.

There's a very active online community in Britain so I'd urge you to go to bake offs and get to know folks and swap equipment etc before you make any decision. Buying a big amp blind is quite a risk - you might be lucky but trial and error can be expensive and time consuming.

I think what I'm saying is keep your money in your pocket, listen to as many set ups as you can, then buy once.

Happy listening and good luck.

 

There are some very puzzling responses in this thread. Let's get the easy part out of the way first, forget low power tube/valve amplifiers, they are not going to cut it with your speakers.

I assume that these are your speakers: Vienna Acoustics Beethoven Baby Grand Symphony Edition loudspeaker ? If so, let's look at the measurements: Vienna Acoustics Beethoven Baby Grand Symphony Edition loudspeaker Measurements

JA writes: Vienna Acoustics specifies the Baby Grand's sensitivity as a very high 91dB. My estimate was significantly lower, at 86.5dB(B)/2.83V/m. The impedance is specified as 4 ohms, and while the average magnitude in the midrange and below is indeed 4 ohms, the impedance drops to 2.3 ohms at 90Hz (fig.1, solid trace), a frequency where music has high energy. 2.83 V for a 4 ohm speaker is equivalent to 2 W, so we have a sensitivity, according to JA, of 86.5 dB for 2 W, or 83.5 dB for 1 W. So, you do indeed need high gain to get realistic peak levels in room, and that dip to 2.3 ohms also means you will need a stiff amplifier.

Unfortunately, few UK companies produce typical (Class A/AB) amplifiers with very high powers. The two which come to mind are Musical Fidelity and Chord. You could look for some used MF Supercharger monoblocks (they made 550 W and 750 W versions) or one of their higher power conventional amplifiers. My only concern would be reliability, as I seem to recall some issues with their products over the years. Chord made some very powerful amplifiers, but will be considerably more expensive. I have to admit, I have never been impressed by them, and used to swap out their power amps at Abbey Road for Pass Labs X-series. Abbey Road has since switched to Classe monoblocks, which I use at home.

A high 8 ohm power rating alone is not sufficient for a speaker like yours. The amplifier needs to be able to double its power rating into halving impedances, and you need an amplifier that is stable down to 2 ohms. Barring a few notable exceptions, this usually means the traditional US brands like Krell, Pass Labs, Bryston, Classe (Canadian), etc.

Of the suggestions made, the Classe model will certainly fit the bill, as will the Parasound, though it cannot quite double its power each time (but it is significantly cheaper than the likes of Pass, Krell, etc.).

I'm puzzled by Arcam's claims for its Class-G circuit. It looks like Class-AB with some sort of 'plateau biasing' switching, though they make the claim that it runs in Class-A at low powers (don't see it myself). In any case, they only specify their power amp for a single channel with a spot frequency (1 kHz) when driving a 4 ohm load, which would make me pause. Definitely audition first! (I know that may seem like obvious advice, but amps from the big US companies will definitely drive your speakers, the only concern would be whether you preferred the sonic signature of one over the other. For some of these other amps you first need to determine whether they can drive your speakers to the level you want.)

The Hypex units are very good, but pay attention to the Nord specs. It cannot do 400 W/800 W/1600 W but instead does 400 W/700 W/550 W, so could be current or thermal limited.

Given that the US amps are usually expensive in the UK, you could look to other brands like Electrocompaniet, Plinius, Perreaux, etc.

Since you are not averse to digital amps, you could also consider the Bel Canto REF models. The REF1000M could fit the bill: REF1000M Amplifier - Bel Canto Design

I wonder if you can find a good deal on some old Threshold amps. They were designed by Nelson Pass.

 

I've ordered the Nord One SE UP NC500DM Stereo Silver, which came to just less than £2,000.00.
I now just have to wait a couple of weeks while they are built.

Someone else is running the Nord and has the Vienna Acoustics Beethoven Baby Grand speakers aswell. He's very pleased with the sound he is getting.

The Nord One UP amp seems to run 2 ohm speakers very well, from what I have been reading.

I will now have to get a new pre-amp and I'm looking at the Hattor passive preamplifier.
What is the difference between a passive pre-amp and any other pre-amp for that matter?

Below is a link of a Nord One UP running £120,000.00 speakers!:

Nord Acoustics Hypex NCore NC500 NC400 Amplifiers

 

That speaker efficiency, and load impedance, makes far more sense, I really couldn't understand why the o/p would be struggling with his existing amps, with a quoted efficiency of 91dB.

 

Let us know how it turns out. Would you please let me know your main room size, if your room opens to other large area, speakers placement, sitting distance, the spl to which you typically listen, etc?

I suspect that you might still not going to be happy if you like it loud and your room is really big with lots of openings to other area of the house. Two 6" woofers will not cut it if you like to feel the bass kicks in a large room.

 

I live in a smallish UK house and the room the Hifi system is setup in is quite small: 10ft x 10ft and does not open to a larger area.

With the Roksan mono blocks I was surprised with some music I played, how good the low bass notes were with these speakers.
Can't wait to test the same tracks with the Nord.

If I had a much bigger room, I would love to have some big speakers that can produce those really low down bass notes, but I haven't, so have to make the best of it, which I think I am.

 

Hope it turns out great for you.

 

I really hope it will work great for you. 10' x 10' is a very tough room for smooth bass. It is very hard to deal with speaker boundary interference response (SBIR) and room modes.

I know because I have tried in small square rooms for years. Depends on your speakers placement and sitting location, there is always a big null between the 200 Hz to 80 Hz area due to SBIR. Then there are certain bass notes that have too much gain due to room mode.

I finally gave up and moved my setup to my much larger living room.

 

It's arrived.
I've been listening to music for about 10 hours through my Roksan Caspian preamp and using the Cambridge Audio CXN.
I was not that impressed the first hour or two and then once it had warmed up properly I heard a warmer/smoother sound which had more grip.
Owners of this amp say it gets better and better after hundreds of hours of use.
It's not blown me away yet, but hopefully it will with more use.
Apart from a bit more control, the sound is very similar when I had the Roksan Caspian mono amps connected.
But at least I'm not using so much power now.
I also want to try a passive preamp and see what change that will make.
Would love to try a Hattor, but that means buying one first - I don't think I can try one and decide if I like the sound?

 

I now want to try a passive preamp.

I had a chat by phone with Jonathan Billington (owner of Music First) and he recommended I try the Baby Classic and see how I got on, as I have never heard a passive preamp before, and if it's not to my liking send it back for a full refund.

This is what I am doing, and should receive the preamp tomorrow (Friday).

The only problem is that he does not fit 12V triggers and it does not come with a remote.

If I like the sound, then I will upgrade to the Classic V2.

 

Received the Baby Classic, and..... Wow!
It is literally as if a veil has been lifted: More detail, instruments sound more natural, a more 3D sound, better bass.
I did not think it would make as much difference.

I came across the Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE, which I can buy in the UK for £1,999 and has everything that I want, but I do like the minimalistic approach and still can't get my head round that I don't have to plug it into the mains.

It means I wasted a bit of money having the 12v trigger fitted to the Nord which I will never use if I stick with the Baby Classic, and if I do, will upgrade to the Classic V2.

I've now started thinking about the Baby Reference (will this ever end ). How better can this be?
Do I really want to spend that much money? I can just about afford it, but then how good is the Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE with all the bells and whistles?

I'm currently listening to a brilliant cd called: Hearts of Space and released by The Absolute Sound (TAS).

I was speaking to Jonathan Billington (owner,designer of the preamp) yesterday and have now ordered the Classic V2, which is currently being made.
I will be going to his business premises where he will have it setup and connected to his soon to be released new mono amps.
He also told me I can have a listen to the Baby Reference.
I will be taking my Nord One SE UP NC500DM Stereo to see what he thinks of it.
It will be interesting.

 

Hi Arezzo, just acme across your post, I work for the Distributor of Parasound in the UK, Connnected Distriburion. We would like to organise the demo of the A21 for you, can you get to Tavistock Audio or Audio Destination? Get in touch

 

Passive mono amps? They must be huge...

 

Music First TVC passive preamps, in the right set up (matched for voltage and impedance to the power amp) can sound fabulous. I've had two myself and auditioned the Ref and Baby Ref.

If you're spending that much then you just need to step back and think overall am I spending in the right areas? Where else could I spend that money in the chain to hear the biggest improvement?

Enjoy yourself at S&B!

 

I now have the new Nord power amp and will be picking up the Classic V2 in a couple of weeks time.
What else in the chain could I look at?
I am thinking of trying a few different speakers, but that won't be for a good few months.

 

I'm actually really fond of Musical Fidelity. I've had an A3^CR and still currently have an A300^CR for my Special Twenty-Fives, which -- being Dynaudio -- crave high current and overhead, even though I don't listen at ridiculous volumes. They've become rarer and rarer, but I know they made dual monoblock amps for a good long while, and got kind of ridiculous with the wattage, so definitely look around for different models. I personally prefer the early choke-regulated stuff, and never got a chance to audition the Nuvista tube driven stuff (but that's mostly integrated amps anyway, I think), but your mileage may vary.

 

What do you use as your main source ?

 

Cambridge CXN Network Player, but I'm thinking of upgrading this to the Cambridge Azur 851N.

 

I've upgraded to the Lumin D1.

 

If you post your electric rate (per kilowatt-hour or whatever) we could calculate the running costs, which I doubt will be much. The difference will be even less. It depends also if the "200 watt" is Class AB or G or D etc.