Steve Hoffman remastering George Benson's "Breezin'"(1976)album for Audio Fidelity SACD...

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by lukejosephchung, Jun 18, 2014.

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  1. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    Cool! Amazon just shipped my copy. It will be here on Tuesday. :)
     
  2. sgb

    sgb Senior Member

    Location:
    Baton Rouge
    Email sez it'll be here Tuesday. PP&M postponed again, though.
     
  3. SteelyNJ

    SteelyNJ Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    First impression: I DON'T LIKE the 5.1 mix! It sounds like someone cranked the reverb knob clockwise as far as it would go. BLEH! I find it particularly offensive on the first three tracks (the old "Side One") but I prefer the original stereo mix just about everywhere on the album. The surround layer loses a lot of the "punchiness" of the two-channel mix and is not at all faithful to the original instrument balance. For example, in the track Breezin' I hear cymbal taps way, way out in front that are almost buried in the stereo mix. What's that about??

    Steve Hoffman did his usual good mastering job with the familiar two-channel mix but I've yet to compare it with my original Warner Bros. vinyl, the MoFi vinyl or my old CD from the late '80s or early '90s. I'll get there. Meanwhile, a preliminary thumbs down on the 5.1. (I've never heard the multi-channel DVD-A but I sure hope it's better!)
     
    kenbefound likes this.
  4. lukejosephchung

    lukejosephchung Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Received my copy of this today and played the CD layer mastered by Steve...it's his usual creamy-smooth quality breath-of-life work with full dynamics, clarity and midrange/bass warmth...will be listening to the DSD surround and stereo layers tomorrow, but so far, I'm happy as hell with what I'm hearing!!!:edthumbs:
     
  5. shokhead

    shokhead Head shok and you still don't what it is. HA!

    Location:
    SoCal, Long Beach
    That's a bummer.
     
  6. masterbucket

    masterbucket Senior Member

    Location:
    Georgia US
    :waiting:Well, that scratches the first 2 off my list and have no love for BST.
    Patience is a virtue they say.....
     
    love4another likes this.
  7. SteelyNJ

    SteelyNJ Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    That's just my opinion. Someone else might love the Al Schmitt 5.1 mix (which, I believe, was first released on a DVD-A over a decade ago). It's just not my cup of tea. I can get my SONY ES receiver to generate the same kind of lame "cavernous room" effect from a stereo source by selecting the "Church" or "Concert Hall" DSP mode. That's not what I expect from a quality discrete multi-channel mix.
     
  8. shokhead

    shokhead Head shok and you still don't what it is. HA!

    Location:
    SoCal, Long Beach
    Nor do I.
     
  9. marcb

    marcb Senior Member

    Location:
    DC area
    I don't love (or hate) the 5.1 mix, but to describe it as a fake DSP cavernous room effect is a big overstatement. Fake DSP's impact every instrument and muddy the entire presentation. This mix doesn't do that....it's mostly the lead vocals, the lead guitar and, to a lesser extent, the snare drum and piano that are wetter to give the 5.1 mix a much bigger sound.

    Everyone has different tastes, but given that it is not "big" recording to begin with (no deep bass, no thundering drums), a dry 5.1 mix like the stereo mix could sound pretty lame in 5.1 IMO.

    As I believe I said earlier in this thread, those expecting fireworks from the 5.1 mix will be disappointed. It's not Pink Floyd...it's a 70s pop-jazz vocal album.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2014
    therockman likes this.
  10. marcb

    marcb Senior Member

    Location:
    DC area
    I've never heard the DVD-A either, but I'm pretty sure it's the same since the mix & mastering credits are the same.
     
  11. mknappe

    mknappe Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Sunnyvale, CA, USA
    So it begs the question - why choose this particular title as one of the first to showcase the new 5.1 series?
     
  12. lukejosephchung

    lukejosephchung Forum Resident Thread Starter

    It sold well both as a DVD-A and as an audiophile quality mainstream jazz-pop release...certified multi-platinum during its original LP release and a perennial favorite among audiophiles over the past 38 years...
     
    Galley likes this.
  13. SteelyNJ

    SteelyNJ Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    There's some great discussion HERE about the 5.1 mix going back to the DVD-A days and extending to the present.
     
  14. SteelyNJ

    SteelyNJ Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    Yes, it certainly does. Why showcase a "new" 5.1 series with a retread of a 13-year-old 5.1 mix that wasn't good to begin with? You'd think at least they'd have attempted to improve upon it with a better remix. I have many mult-channel discs including The Yes Album, Close To The Edge, ELP (S/T), DSOTM, Aqualung, The Nightlfly, Everything Must Go, Ziggy Stardust, CTA (quad), Chicago II, Chicago V, Hotel California...I could go on. Not all are "great" but I'd take any one of them over Al Schmitt's Breezin' mix.
     
  15. SteelyNJ

    SteelyNJ Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    Yes, it kind of does. When you take what was originally a tight, punchy stereo mix and drench it with a ****load of artificial echo and reverb, it does impart a certain muddiness to the entire presentation in that sounds linger where they shouldn't and bleed over each other. I get what Al Schmitt was attempting here but he was way too heavy-handed in his approach for my sensibilities.
     
    kenbefound likes this.
  16. brimuchmuze

    brimuchmuze Forum Resident

    It was probably a reflection of what could be licensed at minimal extra cost.
     
    Galley, rd1 and marcb like this.
  17. marcb

    marcb Senior Member

    Location:
    DC area
    So now it "kind of does"? As in...it also "kind of doesn't"?

    I get that you don't like the artistic choice of making the 5.1 mix sound like it was in a bigger space that the original stereo mix. To each his own. I would have liked it to sound like it was in a little smaller sounding space myself.

    But that's what it sounds like...in a bigger room that the original stereo mix. However the decision was clearly intentional and used a lot more precision than just using "church" mode on your Sony receiver...and thus sounds considerably more natural than what you describe (especially at high volume).
     
  18. SteelyNJ

    SteelyNJ Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    I'll revisit the 5.1 mode in a few days with "fresh ears" and try to give it a more objective review.
     
  19. Nate-O-Phonic

    Nate-O-Phonic I didn't get a Harrumph! outta that guy...

    Really looking forward to this, I preordered as soon as it was announced. Mine shipped today, and i somehow caught an odd dip in Amazon's algorithm that meant it cost. $22.78. For all the complainin' about the 5.1 mix, the useful thing that AF did by adding the existing 5.1 is that the secondary absurd OOP used market pricing has it's legs cut out from under them. Steve's stereo mastering will make this really nice, and that is what I would mostlikely listen to anyway.
     
  20. sgb

    sgb Senior Member

    Location:
    Baton Rouge
    I don't have any multi-channel equipment in my sound room anyway, so I, too, will be listening to the stereo SACD only. A friend who dabbles in digital recording took my early pristine copy of the LP and make me a 96K PCM version of this a few years ago. I'm certain that Steve's work will better this by a wide margin.
     
  21. SteelyNJ

    SteelyNJ Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    I think you guys will be very happy with the job that Steve did with the stereo mix.
     
  22. therockman

    therockman Senior Member In Memoriam


    I like the 5.1 mix on this disc, I think it sounds nice and just a little airy.
     
  23. Say It Right

    Say It Right Not for the Hearing Impaired

    Location:
    Niagara Falls
    Was curious about the asking price for the DVD-A.
    http://www.amazon.com/Breezin-George-Benson/dp/B00005LKEW/ref=sr_1_1_title_2_dvd?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1409699699&sr=1-1&keywords=george benson breezin

    A used VG condition goes for $33, and then on up. So, it doesn't look as if the SACD release any downward pressure on the 2ndary market. Then again, the sellers might not be paying attention. :p

    Yes, there is now an AF order pending from me. Never owned this in any previous version. Very much looking forward to placing this into the to Oppo.
     
  24. marcb

    marcb Senior Member

    Location:
    DC area
    I've listened to this disc about 6 or 8 times now. The more I listen to it -- and the ingrained memory of the dry stereo mix fades -- I find I'm barely noticing the bigger room sound of the 5.1 mix.
     
  25. lukejosephchung

    lukejosephchung Forum Resident Thread Starter

    I've listened to both DSD layers of this disc now in 5.1-surround(mastered by Doug Sax)&stereo(mastered by our host)...the surround mix is the same one done by Al Schmitt for the DVD-A release over a decade ago, but it holds up well overall to my ears in terms of tonality and dynamics. The digitally-applied reverberation is what it is...an attempt by Mr. Schmitt to further widen the surround effect by creating a "wetter" acoustic. If you didn't like it on the DVD-A, this disc won't change your opinion. Regarding Steve's remaster of Mr. Schmitt's original 1976 stereo mix, I believe NO ONE can have any legitimate complaints about this...it's every bit as good as we'd hoped it would be and then some...eminently crankable with his patented breath-of-life dynamics, clarity and midrange/bass warmth...I like BOTH mixes, so I'm giving this disc an A+grade!!!:cheers:
     
    therockman and Juggsnelson like this.
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