Steve's Steely Dan Aja

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Dave, Mar 19, 2004.

  1. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialistâ„¢ Thread Starter

    Location:
    B.C.
    My vote goes to Leppo, afterall it was his idea. ;)
     
  2. poe_man

    poe_man Senior Member

    Location:
    Basom
    ;)
     
  3. jahndhi

    jahndhi Forum Resident

    Location:
    Olympia, WA
  4. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    Thanks for the link. Very interesting! I had read Nichols' comments about the MFSL CDs elsewhere, but not the rest of it. Here is something I found interesting from the above link:

    Deteriorating analog masters? Really? Didn't UMG use the original master tapes for the hi-rez Gaucho releases? Didn't Nichols work off the original master tapes for the 2000 remastered CDs? Isn't UMG going to work off the original master tapes for the upcoming Steely Dan SACDs?

    So, was the Steely Dan catalog issued on CD from "flawed" source tapes in 1991 and then reissued in 1992? Can one actually find two different remasters of Aja from the early '90s, for example? Everything I've read about those early '90s Dan issues says that they all suck. I have a CD-R of a '91 or '92 reissue of Aja, and it's awful. Loud, loud, loud.
     
  5. Goodyear

    Goodyear New Member

    I think Mr. Nichols may be blowing the "master tape deterioration" thing out of proportion. Perhaps I'll eat my own words, since I'm not a recording engineer, nor have I actually seen or heard a Steely Dan master tape. But I just don't see how those DAT transfers done back in the early '80s would sound better than the original analog masters. I mean, what's the point in doing a hi-rez release of the stereo mix from DATs??

    What would Steve do (WWSD)? If he was in charge of mastering SACDs for Steely Dan's back catalog, would he use these supposedly deteriorated analog masters or from DAT copies? Hmm...
     
  6. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    I think Steve would work off the analog master tapes or he wouldn't bother with the project. Just my $0.02.

    What's ironic in all of this is that Becker and Fagen are known to be so meticulous in the studio in order to get top-notch sound quality in their recordings, and now the master tapes may have deterioriated. You would think that Becker and Fagen would demand that the analog tapes be stored under ideal conditions.

    Regarding DAT copies, I question if they would be more robust over the years than the analog master tapes. Of course, it depends on how the two media are stored, but DAT is known to be a fragile medium, and Nichols' DATs are 19-20 years old! I remember Steve saying that he mastered Aja and Katy Lied to digital tapes that had a shelf life of "ten minutes".
     
  7. jahndhi

    jahndhi Forum Resident

    Location:
    Olympia, WA
    ...help

    it's all so bloody confusing!
     
  8. Gardo

    Gardo Audio Epistemologist

    Location:
    Virginia
    That Roger Nichols essay has popped up in this Forum several times. The last time, Steve weighed in briefly to say that the essay was all wet, though he didn't elaborate.
     
  9. Gardo

    Gardo Audio Epistemologist

    Location:
    Virginia
    Okay, I know it's April Fools day, but do we all have to dress up like Gary? :p
     
  10. Parkertown

    Parkertown Tawny Port

    I've read this entire thread and no one has mentioned the disc I found today:

    Aja

    DIDX55
    MCABD 37214
    Manufactured in Canada by Cinram

    Says "Previously released as MCAMD 37214"
    Has a date of 1984

    I have not listened yet. Probably a Nichols, eh?
     
  11. Dob

    Dob New Member

    Location:
    Detroit
    The more I hear about how hard and how long Roger Nichols and the band worked on these digital "transfers", the more I suspect that they are not "transfers" at all, but remasters...and having a different tonality than the master tape ("deteriorated" or otherwise).

    If so, it's no wonder that SH (and MFSL) chose not to use them.
     
  12. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    What you have is a later Canadian issue. The "B" in the catalog number stands for "budget". MCA released a number of classic catalog titles in the MCABD series years ago. The MCAMD version may have been the first official Canadian release years ago, but I suspect that the first version available in Canada back in the day was the MCAD-37214 DIDX-55 Japanese pressing. The MCAMD version probably came out in the mid-to-late '80s, when CD manufacturing started to branch out worldwide.

    Your disc is probably a Nichols mastering. Given that it bears "DIDX-55", it probably has the original '84 Nichols mastering that was used for the Japanese pressings (again, assuming that Nichols did the original work) and not the '91 Nichols mastering. How does the disc sound?
     
  13. Parkertown

    Parkertown Tawny Port

    I listened to my Canadian one last nite, and it's great. Much better than the latest remaster, which sounds veiled in comparison. VERY WIDE soundstage. Steve Gadd's drums on the title cut were just thundering, without being boomy. It sounded glorious. Seemed to have that "midrange magic". If this ain't Steve's, it's still one someone can be very proud of.
     
  14. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    Great! Enjoy! Regardless of who mastered it, it sounds great!
     
  15. Parkertown

    Parkertown Tawny Port

    That's what I'm gonna do... :D
     
  16. Leppo

    Leppo Forum Librarian

    A message was sent to Mr. Nichols. Let's hope for a prompt reply. :)
     
  17. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    Cool! Thanks!
     
  18. peter

    peter Senior Member

    Location:
    Paradise
    Time for me to jump in, I guess.

    I just found a 1984 US made MCA disc of Aja. On the disc is the number MCAD-37214. No mention of DIDX 55.

    However, on the last page of the booklet (the page which has one photo each of Fagan and Becker, in the upper right corner is....MCAD-37214 and below that DIDX 55.

    The back inlay has a bar code STICKER on it, just like the Gaucho I found last week. The back inlay also has the DIDX 55 number.

    The disc is made in USA. The info on the CD ring is MCAD-37214-1 1C14 MFD by JVC.

    The disc sounds wondereful. Fantastic soundstage, though a little less stereo separation that PL or G.

    Guess we're never going to get to the bottom of this, are we?
     
  19. Andreas

    Andreas Senior Member

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    The only way to solve this is by making copies and sending them to a "referee" (preferrably Steve, but it could be any well-know forum member).

    At least, we could then categorize all the existing versions by comparing the bits. (Same bits ==> same mastering.)
     
  20. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialistâ„¢ Thread Starter

    Location:
    B.C.
    I don't believe so. With only Steve's ears that can truly be the only reference for definition and no definite confirmations on identification of any copy that exists so far, it's not looking too good for those of us that really want to know. I'm willing to bet that yours is the Roger Nichols version. It's just a little lacking in the mid-range according to Steve IIRC so it would still sound decent. Just not as good as it could have.
     
  21. peter

    peter Senior Member

    Location:
    Paradise
    Steve should refuse to work without being credited.

    This is a nightmare.
     
  22. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    South Plymouth, Ma
    Peter,

    I don't want to speak for the guy, but in these times, it's best to get all the work you can get. His position is best served when he's working on all kinds of projects, big and small, for little or all the glory. And glory goes much deeper than a name in a 2 page libretto.

    He gets plenty of credit too, gets more good work the further he goes and
    his work is wider than what we know. It's been eons since he's done Aja, and his work has gotten 3X better since in comparison.

    Gotta root for a hard worker!
     
  23. Leppo

    Leppo Forum Librarian

    Guys, if you think you have a SH Aja then send it to Steve at RTI so he can take a listen. That is how we finally indentified his Katy Lied. I plan to send him an Aja here soon. . .
     
  24. Evan L

    Evan L Beatologist

    Location:
    Vermont
    I DO think I have an SH Aja. I am sorry, despite all of the "evidence" presented here, it sounds SO good, that I cannot believe it is NOT mastered by SH. Just MHO.

    Evan
     
  25. Vivaldinization

    Vivaldinization Active Member

    That doesn't bode well for your opinion of the rest of the audio world!
     

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