Rolling Stones At Altamont thoughts

I know where it comes from, I contest that it's truly relevant. Herman's Hermits could have hired the Angels and gotten a similar disaster.

 

I'm asking you questions, not putting words in your mouth. All you have to do is stop beating around the bush and say what you think is the true significance of Kenneth Anger here, if there is any.

 

i never said the Stones caused it, either. but the whole "princes of darkness" routine (and that's what it is...a calculated, edgy routine) looks really stupid when they're watching people get beat up/stabbed right in front of them. not quite so much fun when the bad stuff's actually happening, is it?

 

The significance with Kenneth Anger is as a counter-argument to someone saying it was ridiculous to think Mick could be involved in such things. Now can we stop wasting space on the thread?

 

The Stones looked really stupid throughout the entire thing, but that't not part of the post I originally answered. If this argument is about whether or not the Stones looked stupid, I can end that right here: They looked stupid. No "dark forces" required.

 

"Yeah and you thought I was reckless..."

 

He's not say that.

They toyed and played with violence. And the scene turned violent.

They made two mistakes;

They did Not Have proper Security.

And they created a violent and dark vibe.

It's really not difficult to see how things went down hill.

 

I didn't say it was ridiculous to say that Mick was into the occult, but rather that it is ridiculous to cite that as a reason for the events of Altamont.

 

also, it seems like there was a frenzy that was surrounding the Stones anyway. it was their first U.S. tour since '66, right?

that's another thing that strikes me about the documentary...the Stones as untouchable celebrities, and people treating them as such (to disgusting effect). it had gone beyond that Beatlemania/teenybopper thing. they were working in a different and new framework.

 

What strikes me as interesting is how very touchable they are - first thing that happens to Mick as he gets off the helicopter is a punch in the face.

 

oh, i think the "dark forces" made them look especially stupid.

there's the scene where everything is falling apart, so Mick just starts dancing furiously as if to say "i'm a sexpot...so if i just shake my rear and pout my lips, everyone will stop what they're doing and look at me, Mick Jagger. and i will have saved the day!"

it didn't work and he looks DUMB.

 

Wow, I didn't know that. What a mess.

 

......yes. But it was the 60's.

 

"Dancing furiously" serves the dark forces!

 

I believe it. I know what you are talking about!

 

well that's almost like a whole other discussion - the Stones never made it to Woodstock, and they were basically right behind the Beatles in the pecking order. so they come over to the States for their '69 tour, and say "we're gonna do Woodstock West" when they hadn't really been around in the States or dealt with the youth counterculture there in any real way. but they were already part of a jetset/uber hip crowd.

so Mick getting punched in the face, it's like...welcome to earth, pal. here's what it's like down on the ground.

 

this is what i'm getting at...it was all an act, and it was all he knew to do. "c'mon Mick, you're the prince of darkness. shake your bum, and everyone will snap out of it."

 

Yeah, there's no way that Tina Turner would have done that.

 

She lost her head. Literally.

 

okay, well i don't know presume to know what Tina Turner would have done. IMO, though, i think she would have stopped and appealed to the crowd. maybe even walked off.

but the Flying Burrito Brothers and Jefferson Airplane did the same thing - appealed to the crowd to cool it, so calm down and enjoy the show. Grace Slick, stoned as she was, tried to cool everyone out during JA's set.

i honestly don't know what you're trying to prove at this point.

 

It tells you a little bit about the scene. It's background information. The Stones wanted to create a dark or evil vibe.

That's why the idea of using the Hells Angels was appealing. It was part of the narrative they wanted to create. Actual security was a lesser concern.

 

Audiences at sporting events started to get darker at this time. Mets fans looked happy tearing up the field in 1969 but in 1973 they had the literally stopped the game to allow security to escort Cincinnati Reds family members to leave safely. Many cities started to have burnings and rapes if their team won a championship.
There was naivety among the counterculture that Hell's Angels were spiritual brothers, "noble savages". They were half right. Putting on a hastily organized concert attended by huge numbers of people with various drugs, long time delays between acts, bad food and toilet facilities is a mix for a potentially hazardous situation. Woodstock got lucky, Altamont didn't.
Wasn't there a lot of pressure on the Stones to put on a free concert because their ticket prices were higher, especially at MSG?

 

I'm only trying to suggest that a lot of this "dark forces" "satanic" stuff has little to do with Altamont except make it tabloid style fodder. I think that Grace looks every bit as stupid as Mick, and sounds just as effete. She actually tries to argue for a moral equivalence between the Angels and the people they're beating at one point. Listen for it.

 

Very much so. That's the feeling you get when you watch that stage sequence - they're right there with this volatile crowd and the "security" force looks even more menacing.

And no: I respectfully but vehemently disagree that the Stones wanted to create a "dark vibe." They wanted Woodstock West. Blame them perhaps for being over ambitious, naive, or self-aggrandizing but certainly not that. Watch the film again.

 

Songs like Sympathy for the Devil, Midnight Rambler, etc. don't really give forth that 60's love & peace Woodstock vibe ya know. Just saying..