Rolling Stones At Altamont thoughts

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Shem the Penman, Mar 1, 2015.

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  1. dkmonroe

    dkmonroe A completely self-taught idiot

    Location:
    Atlanta
    Well, I totally disagree with you on that. If the headlines had been, "Stones Free Concert Brings Peace, Love, and Flowers to Altamont Speedway", they'd have been overjoyed with that.
     
  2. Jayski

    Jayski Forum Resident

    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    Don't forget about Disco night.
     
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  3. overdrivethree

    overdrivethree Forum Resident

    go back in the thread...i said everyone who was involved played a part in the fiasco that was Altamont. perfect storm of naivete, drugs and disorganization.

    but to deny that the Stones weren't putting off the "dark" image intentionally, and say that they weren't being reckless about certain aspects...that's just being straight-up contrarian.

    back-masking in heavy metal encouraging kids to take drugs and kill? yeah, that's tabloid fodder. but the Stones made a concerted effort to put off a nasty, devilish vibe. while it didn't cause problems at Altamont, it sure as heck didn't help.
     
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  4. Jayski

    Jayski Forum Resident

    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    We may need to hire the SOA to keep peace here.
     
  5. Shem the Penman

    Shem the Penman Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Yeah she sounds way out of her depth in that scene. Can't really blame her for it but her stage presence is gone at that point and she does not know what to do or say.
     
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  6. dkmonroe

    dkmonroe A completely self-taught idiot

    Location:
    Atlanta
    It's just a persistent debate, no one's unsheathing pool cues.
     
  7. Shem the Penman

    Shem the Penman Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Are you just trying to get me to quote Torn And Frayed again?

     
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  8. ShawnX

    ShawnX Forum Resident

    Location:
    Detroit, Michigan
    Oh...they would have like that. But not enough to actually take steps to keep everyone safe.

    Their Image first. Your safety second.
     
  9. dkmonroe

    dkmonroe A completely self-taught idiot

    Location:
    Atlanta
    The fate of Altamont was sealed long before the Stones took the stage. IIRC correctly from the various accounts I've read, the greatest number of beatings took place during the Jefferson Airplane and Flying Burrito Brothers sets. Of course, none of that compares to a guy being stabbed to death right in front of the stage, but that didn't happen because it was the Stones playing - it happened because the Angels started whacking Meredith Hunter and he pulled a gun on them.
     
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  10. dkmonroe

    dkmonroe A completely self-taught idiot

    Location:
    Atlanta
    They were stupid and negligent, no arguing that.
     
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  11. Wright

    Wright Forum Resident

    Speaking of the film's narrative construction, I've always found it interesting that Charlie Watts plays such a central role in the film. I mean, for the first fifteen minutes or so, you'd think that Charlie was the spokesperson of the group, as we see him reacting and responding to the news coverage. Sure, Jagger is also present in this sequence, but Charlie has far more screen-time and dialogue.

    I wonder if this was deliberate, to have Charlie fill this function, since he is arguably the most sympathetic member of the band. I mean, how can you not like Charlie Watts? Those opening scenes, I think, kind of help to defuse any bad feelings the viewer might have towards the Stones going into the film.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Shem the Penman

    Shem the Penman Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    You've also got the great Wild Horses moment I referred to earlier in the thread. What a special scene - where else can you see a big rock band listening to the playback of a classic song like that? Or when they're dancing around to Brown Sugar in the hotel room and Mick Taylor's asleep on the couch.

    Also I think they may have wanted to make Jagger's reactions a bigger part of the film but he didn't have much for them at the end. I don't blame him.
     
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  13. Scott in DC

    Scott in DC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Some have questioned why there wasn't "real security" at the concert. If this means security guards who would be on hand to deal with unruly people and so on then I think that ran against the grain of the concert going crowd. I think the Woodstock mentality of Peace, Love and Music made people complacent about the dangers of booze, drugs and rowdy crowds.

    Just my 2 cents...

    Scott
     
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  14. Purple Jim

    Purple Jim Senior Member

    Location:
    Bretagne
    A train wreck of a gig and it's a fascinating film, a tiny window to look through and get a sense of what was going down. The Stones were badly informed that the US Hells Angels were not the same animal as the UK Angels and this would never be Hyde Park II and certainly not at midnight (or whatever time it was).
    There is often sympathy for Meredith Hunter but what type of person takes a gun to Pop festival?
    My favourite moment: when the dog saunters across the stage behind the group :p
     
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  15. rockledge

    rockledge Forum Resident

    Location:
    right here
    I remember going to a drive in and seeing the movie when it first came out, and being quite horrified at it.
    I had been accustomed to going to concerts as they were at that time, which was just huge festival like parties where people treated each other like they have known each other all their lives and there were very few problems.
    Watching the movie gave me the creeps, the vibe was just bad news. It just didn't feel right.
     
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  16. rockledge

    rockledge Forum Resident

    Location:
    right here
    I think you are exactly right on.
     
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  17. Olompali

    Olompali Forum Resident

    The Dead's involvement with the Stones was for a stealth concert in Golden Gate Park. Jagger, unfortunately, announced it way in advance and SF authorities denied a permit and banned any such concert. This is where The GD's role in the organization diminished almost completely.
    Once the event was moved from place to place. making it impossible to construct a viable stage. the show should have been scotched.
    Compare Woodstock's stage and gulf of separation between the performers and the audience.
    The desire to have an event superseded all logistics.
    There were festivals before 1969 and there are many to this day. Altamont didn't start or end any "era."
     
  18. Further to what someone said earlier: Woodstock was propped up by the straight middle class world, including the military, who distributed food, brought in doctors, and cleaned the toilets so it wouldn't turn out like Altamont did.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2015
  19. Sordel

    Sordel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Switzerland
    I'm going to have to put a disclaimer here: I didn't live through the Altamont era, have never read up on it beyond short articles and I saw Gimme Shelter maybe thirty years ago. So I'm working from general knowledge and Wikipedia here.

    That said, I think a lot of what we feel about Altamont is down to the power of the documentary. I think there's only one documentary I've ever seen that had a bigger emotional impact on me (Waco: Rules Of Engagement) and that sense of inexorable building doom in Gimme Shelter is palpable. The filmmakers wanted you to feel that The Rolling Stones were to blame, that the Hell's Angels security were terrible, that Altamont was the end of the Woodstock generation. And, because the documentary was so powerful, it fixed that version of events in everyone's minds.

    Yet, with the perspective of time, neither the Stones nor the Hell's Angels seem like particular "essential ingredients" here. At Kent State it would be National Guardsmen killing people, so it wasn't specifically that the Hell's Angels were psychotic. Meredith Hunter turned up to a concert with a gun and produced it after an altercation with security: sure, the security was out of line if Hunter had been punched, but given that he was high at the time he could have produced that gun based on any perceived grudge. Moreover, in a situation where someone in a crowd draws a gun today I think that there is a better than average chance that he gets killed, whether by police or whoever. Clearly the jury thought so as well because they acquitted the man who stabbed Hunter to death.

    Under the circumstances, you can't really turn around and say "aw, he was a nice guy who had been beaten up, and was just going to fire a warning shot in the air when he fell victim to the Hell's Angels' bloodlust, which had been whipped up by the Stones". In comparable circumstances today with no Stones and no Hell's Angels wouldn't we expect the same end result? Even with no drugs and no rock concert - say, Meredith Hunter pulls out a gun and points it in the air at the neighbourhood mall - there's a good chance he gets killed by a policeman.

    I know that the atmosphere of Altamont seems to have been particularly poisonous, but haven't we all been at concerts where we've felt intimidated? If, at one of those, the security at the stage had killed someone in the audience, I think that a similar story of inexorable doom could have been put together, and in this case the documentary put it together incredibly well.
     
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  20. Commander Lucius Emery

    Commander Lucius Emery Forum Resident


    But wasn't that because Woodstock was a three day event, planned as such, where Altamont was a one day?
     
  21. Jgirar01

    Jgirar01 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dallas, Texas
    Sam Cutler , in his book alludes to darker forces at work here to end the peace and love hippy thing. Think it was the CIA distributed bad acid, etc to help " set up" this nightmare and end the hippie counter culture. Now, he was there, and should know, and he paints a weird scene of the whole tour and mysterious people hanging out. I don't want to believe his story, but I can't say I would put it past the government to do that. It is an interesting read.
     
  22. ruben lopez

    ruben lopez Nunc Est Bibendum

    Location:
    Barcelona Spain
    I think that the main problem was that the stage was nearly on floor level.
    It wasn't the moon,the stars,the devil the Angels the Dead the beer or the drugs.
     
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  23. Linus Vendeen

    Linus Vendeen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    It a great documentary, a masterwork in fact in terms of filming and editing.

    The whole set up with MSG sets the scene for the viewer in terms of the Rolling Stones as a live band and their gigs so you immediately get an idea that things are wrong when they are at Altamont. The whole arrival with Mick getting punched to the final lets all get on the helicopter to escape gives an idea of a bad dream spinning out of control.

    The Stones screwed up for sure, they were out of their depth. They left too much to chance. What is interesting is they had always flirted with violence and they knew the music they made drew that out (see Mick discussing the violence that accompanied their gigs in Europe and the films of riots in Crosstown Hurricane) but this time Mick was not the ringmaster in charge and at the centre of it all. His twirling looks ridiculous and is exposed as the camp theatrics it was. This wasn't anything to do with the music and what was happening on stage.

    I watched it again recently though and one thing struck me. The Angels are painted as bad guys but it is odd, clearly at least some were trying to do the job they were asked to do. Badly, violently for sure but they were in their minds trying to keep control and keep the gig going on, in a situation they had no experience of. Just like the Stones they seemed out of their depth too.
     
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  24. blackdograilroad

    blackdograilroad Forum Resident

    Location:
    Devon, UK
    .............not so widely known, I think, that Crosby, Stills & Nash played Altamont. They picked up the vibe, were pretty nervous, and got the heck out as soon as they finished their set.
     
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  25. john lennonist

    john lennonist There ONCE was a NOTE, PURE and EASY...


    Agree 100%.

    The fact that they kept everyone waiting (therefore everyone's getting more drunk and stoned and crazy [bad enough for the fans, far worse for the Angels]) for like an hour or whatever it was for some egotistical reason of Mick's*, just added more fuel to the fire, or, to quote Jerry Garcia, "Dante's Inferno."

    * Just found the post below...


    .
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2015
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