Stones - Old London Discs Question

Now that they've started hitting the used bins, has anyone drawn any conclusions as to which of the old London/Decca CDs (other than Aftermath) are keepers? I want to keep my eyes peeled. Today, I found a copy of the W. German London Between The Buttons disc. Nice to have the correct cover artwork!

Thanks in advance,

Jay

 

or anything from Japan except those marked POCD-1960 or greater. Especially the P33L and P25L series.

Mud-

 

Thanks, Steve and Mud. I jumped on Between The Buttons as soon as I saw it. I welcome any other guidance on particular titles that are worth going the extra mile for.

Thanks,

Jay

 

Can't resist asking--does this mean you're not very favorably impressed by the new Stones SACDs?

Gardo

 

P33L Japanese discs are murder to find (I have no real backup to this statement, other than that I've been looking for 'em for ages, and they're...well, not easy to find!).

If you see a London disc with an 820 prefix, you're pretty much set...while I know that SOME countries kept that scheme into the ABKCO era, I don't think it's very prevalent (most switch to an 844 prefix). As was said above, any P25L or P33L Japanese disc is fine, and "early" POCD numbers are OK as well (beware, though: the early-POCD "American CDs" like England's Newest Hitmakers and the Best Of discs are obviously just American dubs).

For the most part, the differences between the German/French discs and the Japanese discs are not high in number, and the differences between the different Japanese pressings seem to be with regard to booklet layout and obi only. The Japanese discs tend to be cloned from the first-pressing German discs--which, in the case of Hot Rocks, is good!--and also have much better artwork. Now, the Japanese discs DO differ noticably in a few places. For one, Beggars is missing a bit of Prodigal Son (this could be on the very first-press Beggars, though, which I've never heard). December's Children is also all mono on the Japanese disc, although it apparently shows up like this on a few French CDs as well (whether or not this is an accidental ABKCO clone isn't known currently, as I don't have an old ABKCO disc to compare it to). Let It Bleed is also apparently different. Lastly, the Big Hits comps have a few odd variations...the biggest being the use of a very crisp, fake-stereo version of You Better Move On on Past (which certainly doesn't show up normally in the London catalogue anywhere...is this version in the old ABKCO catelogue at all?)

As for obselencense:

a) I can't imagine that the 1st album sounds any better in its current incarnation than it does on the first-press London disc.

b) In my opinion, a few of the London discs *are* mostly obselete. 12x5 now has stereo versions, Beggars sounds MUCH better (but has the tape dropout in Stray Cat), Singles Collection is universally upgraded (although this is cheating, since it never was a real London release), and Now! may or may not sound better (the jury's also out on Got Live, Let It Bleed, Satanic--which sounds pretty much the same--and Ya Yas at present).

c) Some discs are definately NOT obselete...all four Hot Rocks, Aftermath UK (for wider mixes), Buttons (same), December's Children, etc.

-D

 

David,

Thank you very much for the very informative response. Glad to know that BETWEEN THE BUTTONS is on the high priority list. With the "Ruby Tuesday" problem, it became even more appealing!

Jay

 

They honestly shouldn't be too hard to find anymore (for comparison purposes, the Beach Boys Caribou discs were out for a FAR shorter time, and post-reissues they're EVERYWHERE, whereas before they were impossible to track down). Most are well worth picking up anyway.

-D

 

Fair point, David, but so far the only discs I've seen other than BTB are the ABKCOs. I'm really hoping to track them all down -- perhaps it will become easier once the distribution of the remasters improves. Thanks again for your insight,

Jay

 

Well, also, keep in mind that since the Londons were never released in the US, we're seeing a different result in the used bins here. Go to Europe...you'd see tons more.

-D

 

Right, at least we should once the new remasters actually get released there. They're in the same boat as our Canadian friends right now.

Jay

 

What are the differences between the London cds and the ABCKO originals besides the track listings? Better tapes, better eq? Is there a web site that has the differences? I know Hot Rocks has is mostly stereo. I'm interested in the later albums from Aftermath - Let It Bleed. Thanks.

 

Everything you want to know about the non-US London pressings and more at:

http://home.arcor.de/folon2/stones_cds.html

Mud-

 

I had one more thing to add. If you ever look for the London cds on Ebay stay away from any of the South American sellers. Those London cds are not originals. They are copies. They are priced very low as well.

Mud-

 

Are you sure? Can you provide details?

Joachim

 

A source told me this and I didn't ask for details since I have mostly all of these cds. My take on it was that all of a sudden tons of these showed up on Ebay for about $20 USD using the Buy It Now feature. I didn't doubt that. It seemed to make sense that:

1. they were OOP
2. many appeared at once
3. all sellers were from SA
4. they were cheap
5. they were in demand (the perfect thing to copy)

I'm not saying the sound isn't the same. I'm saying that they are copies. How else could they not be? In another example, you can buy one season of "The X-Files" DVDs from China for $20 on Ebay. In US stores these are over $100. Think these aren't copies?

I will try to get more info about how to distinguish copies from the real thing.

Mud-

 

I agree with you, but that isn't a proof!

Do you think they made copies of dozens of different CD pressings?

Joachim

 

Umm, you're not talking about the seller from Argentina, are you? I couldn't help noticing how many auctions he's had up in the last few weeks...

 

Yes, there are several Argentinian sellers (eBay accounts) offering R.S. London CDs ...

Joachim

 

That's the one, Matt. He must have access to a warehouse.

But Joachim is correct. It's still not proof but mighty suspicious.

I've asked my friend in Germany to help get some info about this.

Mud-

 

Buyer beware...

I won "Hot Rocks 1 & 2" from the Argentinian seller and the discs I received had the same mono mixes as the American Abkcos, even though the artwork on the discs were similar to the European Londons and the notes indicated only a couple of songs were in mono. The discs themselves were made in Argentina.

I received a copy of "Beggars Banquet" also which was in stereo but was pressed in the USA.

 

ultron, I also noticed that at the link I provided earlier in this thread that the SA "Aftermath" cover is the US ABKCO cover but the backing is the London backing. The disc has the London playing order.

Very strange.

Mud-

 

Here's what my friend in Germany tells me about the South American Stones London cds: (seems the matrix code on the cd is the answer)

The only Decca stones CDs made in Argentina by Musimundo were Hot Rocks 1
and Hot Rocks 2 which had the West German book but the CDs have Industia
Argentina on them which means they were made in Argentina. They were on
still on sale in the late 90s and probably you can get them even now in
stores. The Brazilian Cds on eBay seems to be genuine but those are also
not very rare and old. The rest of the Decca CDs sold in South America
(except Brazil) were imported from Germany. Beginning in 1992 only the
remastered ABKCO crap were manufactured and sold in Germany.

We have a small but fine Rolling Stones fan club here in Berlin/Germany and
have often discussed the different pressings and tried to catalogize them.
Some of them (bought through eBay or at local music fairs) couldn't be
assigned to a certain country or to a certain date. Most of those CDs are in
excellent, mint or even sealed condition but do not have any entry or matrix
code in the inner ring of the CD. The booklets of those CDs are also very
different regading the total pages and the paper quality. So a sealed London
CD from South America or the 3rd world, with a poor booklet and no further
information or matrix code on the CD - that should be most probably a NOT
official manufactured CD. Some weeks ago a friend of mine got a "Between
the Buttons" with "Made in USA" on the CD - also from Argentinia - every
time another suprise ;-). If I remember correctly I have sent you a quote
from an Argentinian friend who owns a big record store in Buenos Aires - he
clearly states too that there are a lot of pirate copies on sale but
couldn't give much signs on how to figure out if it is priate or legit. In
my opinion the inner ring of the CD is the best mark to check if it is or
not.

The very first editions (S/T, TSMR, BTB, BB, LIB, AFTERMATH, HEADS and HR12)
with the 2 or 4 page booklet were only manufactured and sold in Germany (end
exported to the US). Those CDs are the most collectibles because only very
few of them were produced in 1984-1986. If I should name a single CD it
would be the S/T with the EAR London label. I know only very few persons who
have seen this CD in real - most of them are knowing it only from pictures.

Mud-

 

Mudbone,

Thanks for the heads up. I also saw the Stones CDs listed by the seller from Argentina, and decided not to bid on his items after checking his eBay feedback, which includes 31 negative and 16 neutral feedbacks in the last 6 months!! Forum members, please remember to check the seller's feedback before bidding on eBay.



Ed Hurdle
HeavyDistortion