Subwoofer Upgrade verdict- Add one (identical) of trade up ?

Thinking about upgrading my single 10" sealed subwoofer and have (2) options-
The current sub sounds and blends very well, excellent slam and impact. I just don't get the authority of deep sustained bass notes that I have heard and liked in other systems. It peaks out ~ 27 Hz or so.
1) Add another identical subwoofer.
2) Trade in for a couple bumps up the line- a 12" sealed sub with much more power and deeper frequency response- a much better subwoofer. It basically plays sub 20Hz with authority.

Each option will cost ~ the same.

My thinking is that the getting the larger, deeper more powerful sub might be the way to go but would like to hear from anyone who has tried either option.

 

When you can reproduce BASS down in the audio abyss of the teens...you CAN FEEL THE DIFFERENCE. You can pry my heavy as hell Klipsch RSW-15 powered sub from my cold, dead hands! Yes. get the bigger woof.

The "PHIL ZONE" never felt so good.

 

Get the upscale 12 then buy another later. 2 much better than 1.

 

I don't use a sub, but thinking of adding one. Not sure I need two of them as I really think one will do the trick......Once I get the funds I think I will get the SVS SB2000 12" driver down to 19Hz 500watt amp should be more than enough.
Plus if you want another SVS will give you a discount within a yr....... And they offer 45 day in home trial, seems like a good deal.

SB-2000

 

Physics says that adding another of the same sub will play louder but not go lower. So if you want to go lower, you will need a different sub. "Hoffman's Iron Law" and the realities of driver design imply it will pretty much need to be larger. My instinct as a loudspeaker design engineer suggest it will be really difficult to play substantial SPL at very low frequencies with a sealed design. It's not impossible, just really difficult. So open your mind to ported designs-they can be very musical if tuned low enough. Many of them also have "bungs" to tune or even close off the ports.

 

I traded my JL d110 sub due to same limitations you mentioned. I am happy with my twin 15" sub. But I don't recommend the company due to poor service.

I have been eyeing this one in ebay:
Paradigm Sub 15, Rosenut, factory authorized clearance, full factory warranty 809918015447 | eBay
Original price ~$3500, now about 1/2 price.

 

My ENTEC SW-1 is a sealed design, flat down to 15hz. It can make my nutz clang .

 

Trade up

 

The sub i'm looking at moves air by having a very long peak to peak excursion ~ 3 inches.

 

Consider that adding another sub identical to what you have (and turning them both down -3dB so they are still balanced with your main speakers), should give you identical sound, but just with double the power handling capability. Also put them next to each other for better coupling, and you might go from 100dB max to 106dB max SPL, although another benefit may also be less distortion at normal listening levels.

 

I'd go for the one that has lower frequency response.

 

that one looks very promising, has all the integration features i need.
i'm considering the JL E112. looks great on paper.

 

As in Phil Collins?

 

Phil Collen. Also:

 

The only thing missing for the Paradigm is the high level inputs. Otherwise, on paper it is a better sub than JL E112. The Paradigm has more power, weigh more, and go lower.

 

I run a pair of those and can recommend them without hesitation. Pipe organ and Pink Floyd will find their limits, but I'm quite pleased. Remember that watts mean nothing. It is SPL that counts.

 

I was an engineer too. The difference between sealed and ported is excursion. A sealed will be excursing wildly while the ported will be barely moving at the same frequency. The ported cone will unload below resonance, but there probably isn't much program material with single-digit low frequency response. The sealed will have the advantage of pure musicality. A ported operates with the port 360 degrees behind the cone, and that tiny bit of "slop" makes the ported not quite as "clean" as a sealed.

 

Your statements seem to mischaracterize aspects of ported enclosures.

Here are model plots of a Genelec 7070a enclosure, with its original Peerless driver (orange), a replacement driver selected for its better performance in the Genelec enclosure (purple), and that same driver in its calculated optimum sealed enclosure (white).


#1: "A sealed will be excursing wildly while the ported will be barely moving at the same frequency"

Compare sealed to ported here. Pumping 300 watts into the speaker, we see the ported (purple) is excursioning a bit more at 40Hz than sealed (white). The cone movement drastically decreases as we approach the port resonance around 25Hz though, where instead it is the port that is moving lots of air. When the port no longer provides loading below 20Hz, the speaker can be driven to beyond xmax.

The sealed enclosure, however, always operates in linear excursion and doesn't exceed xmax at its rated power, no "wildly" seen here.




#2: "A ported operates with the port 360 degrees behind the cone"

If they did, that would be awesome, 360 is in phase. It's air mass behaves more like a spring and it's output is more complex than that.

We can see in these phase response curves that phase change is never off by more than 270 degrees, and the sealed vs ported gives a quite similar phase response shift between 20Hz - 100Hz:




#3: "that tiny bit of "slop" makes the ported not quite as "clean" as a sealed."

I don't know the scientific definition of "slop" when it comes to acoustics...

Here's the kind of SPL ported vs sealed can ultimately deliver.

Let's talk about the sealed box (white). Without the port to extend its low frequency capabilities, the frequency response starts falling even from the typical 85Hz crossover frequency, and by 30Hz is giving you 6dB less sound and 6dB less output than the ported design, even though the cone is moving twice as much.

More cone movement gets you more distortion, as the voice coil begins operating further out of the magnetic field linear area. If slop = distortion, I'd pick the ported enclosure as the winner.



(PS We can see the rationale for spec'ing a different driver: The Genelec's original woofer was more efficient and had a frequency response hump that offered more SPL above 30Hz, but was ultimately not so flat in frequency response. The chosen replacement for the enclosure (purple) exceeds it in linearity, and without that "hump", has a much lower "-3dB" frequency.)


Port noise and port placement concerns are the detractors from ported designs. This Genelec has a unique enclosure that wraps an otherwise impractical huge long flared-ended port around the whole box, for a vent air velocity that stays below 15 m/s, less than halfway to the "danger zone". (way overpriced though...)

 

I'm getting a pair of these when my check from my financial advisor arrives. I researched and researched and compared and compared and I felt this was the best deal for the $$$$$$$$$.

Read up on the features!

SB-4000