Sugden amplifiers and pure Class-A in general...?

And both are hot!

 

no, no, Rhian is not hot. YOU and amp are HOT.

 

Back on topic... my Campion has sold, so no more comparing the amps A/B... it's all Sugden, all the time right now.
Yes this amplifier runs hot, but my-oh-my, does it ever sound sweet, detailed, punchy, with oodles of well-controlled bass and a midrange to die for.
If going from the Brio-R to the Campion was like going from the control room into the studio, going from the Campion to the A21AL is like pulling up a chair next to the musicians as they were being recorded. The sense of "being there" has me continually shaking my head. Those that have read my coverage of amps and speakers know I like to go on, but the farther I swim up the audiophile chain, the more I'm truly understanding what "hi fi" means and how it translates through gear.
The Rega/Sutherland/Sugden/Harbeth music-making chain is something to hear.

 

Congratulations

 

If you have not listened Line-In at the A21 yet, pls, connect your smart-phone into the A21.
You can understand what amazing amp.

 

I've got a Sutherland Ph3D phono stage going into the A21AL, I think I'm OK. But, thank you Kazu!

 

no problem. But sorry i'm confuse. Which is your demoed Sugden A21?
A21Ai(built-in phono stg) or A21AL(Lin-in ONLY, without phono stg ) .

 

As I've written, it's the A21AL.

 

Phono stages on all Sugdens are very highly regarded.
So I recommend that you would purchase A21Ai though maybe Sutherland is better.
IMO, I feel that it's more better than REGA FONO MM MKII.

 

Raf, I checked your photo file. I didn't know you have already purchased Sutherland Ph3D.

 

I had an older Sugden preamp go through here years ago. I restored it and found the build and sound similar to older Bryston products but a bit more primitive and affordable. It had a very nice phono section and the fellow who bought it had me assemble the rest of his system here and used a Rega table as a source and Tannoy speakers. I can't recall what power amp he used but it wasn't terribly expensive. He still has all of it.
-Bill

 

So I guess the question is, with a solid state Class A amp, do you leave it on all the time? I would imagine it is going to be like tubes, which I turn on an hour or so before listening with the radio etc.

 

I've been letting it warm up for about 20-30 minutes. No way would you leave this on all the time, it also states in the manual that it reaches optimal operating temperature in about 10 minutes and that leaving it on 24/7 would only shorten the lifespan of the amp. I'll bring the manual into work and scan it so I can post a PDF online next week.
I'm going to be starting an in-depth written review of the A21AL this weekend and hope to have it done by next week.
How an amp can reproduce the human voice is probably the biggest make-or-break for me, and the Sugden absolutely nails it IMHO.
This amp is impossible to ignore, I kept putting my laptop down, and work away while listening, or just came back to the sofa and sat down while cooking during certain passages on songs because I couldn't believe what I was hearing and wanted to be sure. This was even on songs that usually don't do much for me – which is why I was doing something else to begin with – so the fact that it kept pulling me in regardless of what I had going on, really says something to me about how much effort has gone into maintaining the basics of this design (and updating/upgrading what could be improved) over the past 40 years in regards to voicing this amplifier. And in my books, if you can reproduce the human voice "right" then the rest falls into place.

 

I love SUGDEN& ProAc!
Maybe You love SUGDEN!

 

timind, Thank you!

 

OK, I'm going to hold off on the A21AL review as I will be having an A21SE here next week to go head-to-head with it.

 

Wow, Don is really generous with the loaners

 

He is amazing, one of my favourite people. Period. There's been some changes, and it looks like I have more free $$$ than I thought, so after some serious consideration, and with Don' recommendation, I'm going to demo the A21SE for a couple weeks against the A21AL and make a final decision.

 

I will say that the Sugden A21AL is one of the very best voiced amps I've ever heard, regardless of price. It's ability to throw a huge sound stage, and at the same time absolutely weld instruments and vocalists in place in 3D space (unless they move around), is something that really has to be heard to be appreciated. I haven't heard this level of detail, tonal accuracy and true timbral reproduction on instruments in anything less than an Audio Note M8 pre-amp coupled to a Classé 2100 power amp. And that's a lot more money.
Drums, snares, cymbals, high-hats, string instruments, horns, brass, woodwinds, vocals – you name it – this amp delivers the goods. One thing I keep shaking my head in disbelief at is how real the instruments and singers sound, it just sounds convincingly live. I've been thinking that maybe a good way to do the reviews is to break down the amp's performance LP by LP. I've got a lot of audiophile vinyl, plus I think people relate emotionally and psychologically to entire albums better than mentioning the specifics of a song here and there. Sound good?

 

I'd like to attempt to clean up this myth. First of all, it's possible that the OP could have been referring to the actual "magical" quality of the midrange and bass as reproduced by tube amplification rather than suggesting that there would necessarily be more of it. Here's an interesting little fact that is perfectly true and may come as a surprise to many of you: Most tube amplifiers are glaringly bright and pretty awful sounding! This statement regards vintage and new tube amplifiers. There are hordes of thin, brittle, and awful sounding tube amplifiers out there, believe me, and I've been waiting for the day when someone can show me one that is the quintessentially warm, rich, and full sounding tube amp of legend. As it turns out, there are some exceptional pieces, thankfully, but they are, really and sincerely, few and far between. I am not sure how or when the tube amp became the holy grail reference standard in terms of fat, warm, dark, heavenly sound, but that is simply not the case. It's an absolute fairy tale. On the other hand, tubes do something very special that I have never heard solid state reproduce, but that is another story for another thread.

 

Just gotta say, I have never heard a full valve amplifier in person, so I can't offer an opinion, but this post goes against pretty much everything I read on this forum when it comes to discussions relating to valve amps and the music playback they produce. Interesting to say the least !

 

Hmm. Just goes to show you we all have very different hearing. In my 50 years I've heard many, many tube amps, and, if anything, I've found more of them soft at the frequency extremes -- bass and treble, with the treble being far too warm for true-to-life, accuracy sound reproduction way, way more often than I've ever hear them sounding "thin" or "brittle." I'd love to know which tube amps you've found to be thin and brittle.

 

Fair enough. Perhaps if we're going to explore this idea, we should start a new thread so as not to derail this one too much. I have the sense that many people romanticize their expectations of what a tube amp will or should sound like to the point of hearing something more than what is actually there. Some of them simply look like they will sound gorgeous and it's amazing how the brain can respond to those visual cues. I'll leave off by answering your question with one example that comes to mind: the Fisher X-202-C. This amp looks and feels like it should sound incredible, but like most of the later C series amps, it's an absolute screech box and sounds like bad solid state.

 

Class-A is where it's at, IMHO, solid state or tube.

 

The A21SE is in the house and now warmed up. I have Mile Davis Bag's Groove (200G Quality Records/Analogue Productions) ready to throw on the TT. This amp weighs a lot more than the A21AL... let's see about the sound!