Suggestions for Budget Integrated Amp and Pre-Amp

Although I've been a music fan my entire life, I'm just getting into building my first high quality system. I'm more interested in vinyl (thanks to my father's huge collection of 50s and 60s LPs and 45s) than CDs and digital music, though I do have a sizable number of both. I'm currently running a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon DC Esprit with an acrylic platter and Ortofon 2M Red cartridge through a 1995 Technics SU-G75 integrated amp and Pioneer SP-BS22-LR bookshelf speakers. I'm looking to ditch the Technics amp and buy either a good integrated amp with a phone stage or add a pre-amp if needed. After stalking the forums for awhile and not finding the exact information I want, I thought I would open my own thread for suggestions and advice. I would prefer to spend no more than $800 on both pieces (or less and use the leftover money to buy some quality interconnects).

A few pieces of hardware that I have seen regularly:

Amps with Phono Stage

• Marantz PM6005
• PS Audio Sprout

Amps without Phono Stage

• NAD C3xxBEE series
• NAD D 3020
• Cambridge Azur x51A series

Pre-Amps

• Cambridge Azur x51P series
• Yaqin MS-23B (tube amp)
• Pro-Ject Phone Box

I'm open to any and all suggestions from folks on the forum who are more versed in all this stuff I am. I hope to be able to return the favor to another newbie someday. Thanks in advance!

 

• Marantz PM6005

Great bit of kit for very little money.

 

I'll second the Marantz PM6005 as well. In fairness, I'm not familiar enough with the other IA's to recommend them, but surely some will.

In general and IMO the Marantz IA's have always had very good built-in phono sections, and I personally can't see any of the 3 phono pre's you listed as significantly bettering them.

 

I'll 3rd the PM6005. Great unit and extremely good when you factor in the price.

Actually working on selling one to one of our customers today!

 

None of the above. First, you don't want to waste a nickel on interconnects. get the best components that you can afford first. if you have a $10,000 or $20,000 system, and you have more money to invest in things other than recordings, then look at interconnects and cables. The cable thing is tricky as there can be excellent performance had for pennies and also very expensive products that can actually sound worse than the common, budget stuff.

Since you want to improve Lp playback primarily but also expect an overall system improvement, I woill suggest two things that will accomplish that. The first is a better set of speakers. The second is a nice, external phono stage.
-Bill

 

My favorite integrated under a grand:

http://www.peachtreeaudio.com/nova65se-amplifier-with-dac.html


No phono stage, though.

 

Audio Refinement Complete integrated (secondhand, they are no longer made) would be about $400, and that leaves you another $400 for a phono stage.

No one on here seems to have ever owned one except me!


http://www.stereophile.com/integratedamps/499ar/

 

At $800...New the Marantz, used Rega Brio-r

 

I picked up a used and unmarked NAD 320BEE on eBay for something like $275. I needed it for testing. It sounded pretty good and drove my Focals fine. It is plasticy and built pretty cheaply, but for the money, it was fine. At the same time I purchased a ProJect Phono box. I think that was something like $200 new. It is very adjustable so if you wanted to move to a MC cart, that can easily do the trick. I had that amp, phono pre, a new (old) Thorens and a Shure cart hooked up all at the same time. The total cost for the amp, TT, phono pre and cart was under $1,000. which isn't bad. I purchased that spare stuff because I was troubleshooting a problem. I cannot really comment on how it sounded, or relative strengths or weaknesses of each component since they were all connected at the same time. But I was pretty impressed with it. Had a nice, warm sound. Now I have the main system figured out and fixed, that stuff sits in the corner but adding up the total $$$, it would make a nice low-end/medium-end system. I'll probably hook it up in the bedroom or something. My home office system is vintage Luxman stuff and it wouldn't replace that for sure. I also really like and own some of the Schiit stuff and wouldn't hesitate to try their phono pre either.

Anyway, you can upgrade significantly without a huge expense. Interconnects? Blue Jeans Cable. Keep your phono and consider upgrading the cart. Think about speakers. You should be able to get a cart, speakers, and phono pre for $800 or so. Good luck.

 

I'm using the NAD c316 and NAD pre-amp with the Debut Carbon and same Pioneer speakers. I haven't had the chance to compare it to the others you mentioned, but I think it sounds pretty great. Just buy from someplace with a good returns department and you can't go wrong.

 

Marantz 6005. Interconnects Blue Jeans Cable.com.
Enjoy the music. Buy nothing else until you have decided upon and purchased
the speakers that you hope to own for a decade.

 

Thanks. My current speakers are definitely next on the list for substantial upgrade. I guess I know my next thread...

 

I have a NAD 326bee and I am very pleased. Running a Yaqin pre- with it and love the results. (Should be stated that I'm coming from a (iboughtnew) NAD 3120 with a pretty good built in phono stage.)
Great bang for the buck with the NAD stuff, imho.

 

I owned one of those a few years ago and loved it. Find the thread titled "what pieces do you regret selling?" and you'll probably find me answering Audio Refinement Complete.

Another nice integrated in the original Unison Research Unico if you can find one with a phono stage. Could be around the OP's price now.

 

I sold the Audio Refinement line when it was available. The AR Complete amps were decent sounding and reasonably priced but had a more finicky nature regarding load and mating than many other amps. As a result, it could sound very good in one system and quite anemic in another. In any event, the amplifier is the easiest part to get right in any system and isn't the place to be looking at when upgrading unless pretty much everything before and after it have already been upgraded significantly.
-Bill

 

I think you answered your own question when you suggested the PS Audio Sprout. Got a good write up in Stereophile--it's not state of the art in any one area, but does many different things very well. Sound quality wise, it would match up well with your Pro-Ject and Pioneers.

Also, a used Rega Brio-R would be an excellent choice, and something to build on if you ever want to upgrade your speakers and turntable.

 

Here's a NEW Brio-R for $799!

http://hifiheaven.net/shop/Rega-Bri...jIKrcSPvcdplcM5gRqFZjjIRR-7LwAToqgaAgt88P8HAQ

 

I own a Marantz PM8004, PM6004, and PM5005. Not sure why you'd need a pre-amp with an integrated. Anyway, I don't use one. Of the three Marantz's, I would splurge for the PM8005. The 8000 series is on a whole different level than the 6000 and 5000 series. They are all really, really good, but the 8000 series gets you close to *reference* territory IMO.

You may find a clean, used PM8004 in your budget and it's got a very good phono stage. As good as my 6004 is, I kinda wished I'd bought a second 8004 for the few hundred extra because it's such a nice step up from a build POV. I'm not sure I can hear any real difference between them, however.

 

Having been in your situation not that long ago, I would advise going with the NAD 316BEE. I went through a Denon AVR, a Marantz AVR, and others before finally landing on the NAD. Really, despite its wattage rating, the NAD has much, much more meat to its sound than a Denon or Marantz AVR. Plus, you're much better off with a standalone DAC than an integrated DAC, IMO>

 

Used PrimaLuna ProLogue Two.

 

Go to what I like to call revival era solid state, used. I like to call it revival era as this was an unusual time when high quality, great sounding solid state was reborn, and was coming to the consumer at a reasonable price finally.

Sadly that era did end.

Get a used Adcom GFP 565 preamp, it has an absolutely killer phono section rivaling kilobuck units in it's day and even now IMO. And the best part is it can be had for $275 used.


You still have about $500 left, go ahead and match it with the baby Adcom GFA 535 for under $170. Your speakers are not going to do much better throwing more power at them anyhow.

You now have a clean sounding, matched looking, compact, great sounding system and you still have near $300 left.

Spend the leftover cash on some quality interconnects, a decent record cleaning system and a few LP's and call it a day as you enjoy your simple but revealing vinyl setup.

 

A very nice and reasonably priced speaker upgrade from the Pioneers which I made myself is to the Music Hall Marimbas ($350). They're roughly the same size as the Pioneers but have a much bigger soundstage and far better sonics overall.

A great phono stage at $300 is the Lounge Audio MKIII LCR. Look up the review in Tone Audio. When I switched from my Ouoneer SX-850's phono inputs to the Lounge it was pretty stunning how much better my records sounded.

 

Since I own one, I will chime in and add a vote for the Rega Brio-R.

In this price range (or maybe any), I don't see the logic in a separate phono pre-amp.

 

Marantz 6005, Rega Brio or Rotel RA10 is the route I would take. All have excellent phono stages, and the Marantz has a very good built-in DAC with digital inputs...

 

Just want to say thanks to everyone for taking the time to provide such excellent feedback. Keep the recommendations coming. I plan to pick a top two or three setups and do some pricing and decision making over the weekend.