Superman - Cavill Out!?

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Chazro, Sep 12, 2018.

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  1. MekkaGodzilla

    MekkaGodzilla Forum Resident

    Location:
    Westerville, Ohio
    I think MANY would be down with Supes having gender confirmation surgery.
     
  2. tommy-thewho

    tommy-thewho Senior Member

    Location:
    detroit, mi
    I thought Henry did a solid job.
     
  3. smilin ed

    smilin ed Senior Member

    Location:
    Durham
    As long as they don't let him play Napoleon Solo again..,
     
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  4. SurrealCereal

    SurrealCereal Forum Resident

    Location:
    California
    I had no problem with Henry Cavill’s portrayal of Superman, but I’m actually sort of optimistic about him leaving the franchise. The people behind the DCEU clearly don’t have much of a grasp on where they want the franchise to go, and I think that could end up working out in their favor. The way they’re greenlighting spinoffs all over the place, as well as the departure of Zack Snyder and the relative failure of Justice League, shows that the original vision for the DCEU is rapidly unraveling, and that the producers are starting to get desperate. The reason I say this could be a goos thing is that the artistic (and now practical) failure of the Zack Snyder vision for the franchise has pretty much ruined the chances of a cohesive cinematic universe. Even if most of the films that have come out so far haven’t been good, the source material is still compelling and can most likely be salvaged. Think about the X-Men franchise as an example; some of the most interesting and artistically successful films in the series came out because the producers madd a mess of the whole thing and started greenlighting somewhat standalone films (Logan, Deadpool) that would never have gotten made if they thought the franchise had a future as a cohesive cinematic universe. The reason I think Henry Cavill’s departure bodes well for the DCEU is that it is probably the final nail in the coffin of the dark, murky, bloated, Justice League-centric version of the franchise. A more broken-up, fractured DCEU could likely allow for more one-off movies where film-makers could tell more interesting and stylistically unique stories without having to worry about the overall narrative as much.
     
  5. melstapler

    melstapler Reissue Activist

    Gender, race or ethnicity shouldn't be an issue if an actor truly fits a particular role. Casting changes for the sole sake of making people mad or pushing a pseudo-progressive agenda on viewers seems childish and highly unlikely. Denzel Washington was a great choice to portray Robert McCall in The Equalizer film series. Edward Woodward played McCall in the 1980s tv series, but Washington is a seasoned tough guy actor who brings more honesty to the character than Woodward could attain during the 4 seasons of the series. Of course, the film series is very different from the show and both are enjoyable.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Encuentro

    Encuentro Forum Resident

    If they're seriously considering Michael B. Jordan for the role, and that's a gigantic if, it should be for the right reasons. It should be because they feel that he's right for the role. However, Superman is an icon, and regardless of how good a particular actor of color is, many who see Superman as the character they grew up with will be upset. I suspect that many who would be upset by such a move would be a bit older. I doubt that the younger crowd, who have probably strayed from Superman anyway, would give a hoot. But if there is an actor who is right for the role, and that actor happens to be a person of color, they shouldn't shy away from casting that actor due to the inevitable outrage that will come their way from a relatively small but vocal segment of fans. If they are considering Jordan, I don't know what they're reasons are. I suspect that, more than anything, they would be looking to shake things up and inject some new life into a character that hasn't had much success on the big screen since the early 80s. I maintain that Superman is not, and never has been, defined by his skin tone. He is defined by his values and his heroism. If they find an actor who can properly bring those attributes out of that character on the big screen, and that actor happens to be a person of color, I say give him a shot. He will not be black Superman. He will be Superman.
     
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  7. The Hermit

    The Hermit Wavin' that magick glowstick since 1976

    HAHAHAHAHA!!! Sorry, couldn't help myself... "evolve the DC Universe"... hahahaha, shine on you crazy diamond! More like devolve; the DCEU is being held together with glue and scotch tape right now; if Aquaman bombs, it's over... Wonder Woman will survive just fine on her own.

    My take on Cavill's alleged departure? Meh... Christopher Reeve was that character, and he still is to many... everyone else is merely living in his shadow.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
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  8. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    People gotta remember that the movie business has always been much more about business than it's been about art. And the reality is that the recent Superman & Batman films did not do as well as expected financially, particularly when you compare them to the Marvel films. Once they fired most of the DC Universe filmmakers last year, it was clear they were going to go in a different direction, and this is just what was expected.

    The bigger question to me is when a Marvel film will finally flop. And so far, out of the 21 films that have been released by Marvel Studios over the last decade, none of them have... yet. I wish them nothing but success, but nobody has hits forever.
     
  9. Olompali

    Olompali Forum Resident

    Peaks and valleys but Bond has proven pretty sturdy and steady.
    Plus..though different studios but same Comic Book Universe, the last Fantastic Four was a huge flop.
     
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  10. PH416156

    PH416156 Alea Iacta Est

    Location:
    Europe
    Easy:

    Tituss Burgess or Lena Waithe as Superman
    Kevin Spacey or Ellen DeGeneres as Black Panther

    PC junkies all happy. The world will be better place.; the movie industry too. And somebody should cast Peter Dinklage as Shaft. :D
     
  11. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    To be completely honest, If Cavill is indeed gone, I don't see them doing another Superman film for another decade, if ever again, at least with the traditional Clark Kent/Kal-El incarnation.

    Superman, probably more than any other superhero faces the problem of preconceived notions of nearly 80 years worth of live action interpretations, and for good or bad, Chris Reeve looms a large shadow over the character, and the Superman fan base largely will not put up with anything that deviates one iota from that model.

    Supergirl , like the Marvel characters don't have so many preconceived notions attached to her. She gives them the iconography of Superman ( the same basic origin, the powers, that blue and red costume with that S emblem) without the baggage. I mean the TV Supergirl has stole most of the Superman tropes and rogues gallery and the supporting cast to the point that their Superman in that universe is nearly pointless. I think that's what we will see if they make a Supergirl movie.

    As for Michael B. Jordan being thrown out there as a Cavill replacement? I don't buy it. I think the studio is playing negotiation hardball with Cavill and also seeing how the prospects of a black Superman go down with the fandom.

    I personally think Jordan could pull off a Superman, but it should not be Kal-El. There are other analogues within that universe that he could play. One intriguing idea is Val-Zod, who is the Superman of an alternate earth that lost Kal-El as its hero and he took the mantle. He's related to a version of Supes nemesis General Zod, he has a cool blue and white version of the outfit and yes he's depicted as African American. Michael B Jordan as Kal-El would probably bomb. As Val-Zod? I think the Superman geeks would be pleased. At least i would.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
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  12. Holerbot6000

    Holerbot6000 Forum Resident

    Location:
    California
    I too though Henry Cavill did a good job. That's a tough, tough part because Superman can be a pretty bland character at the end of the day and I think he managed to find the right level of gravitas. If it's true that Zack originally intended Superman to start out as the villain in the JLA movie, I think that Henry would have been a good choice for that too.

    I would be surprised if there were another Superman or JLA movie anytime soon, but I'm sure it will partly depend on how Aquaman does. That Shazam movie seems like a bad idea all around though.
     
    David Campbell likes this.
  13. genesim

    genesim Forum Resident

    Location:
    St. Louis
    There was nothing wrong with Ben or Henry. The writing was the stupidity.

    Want to sink some money in something....get some good direction as well.

    DC Universe is a trainwreck that not onky went iff the tracks but is still steamrolling at Gotham/Metropolis via cosmic ricochet.

    Oh well we always had Donner and Nolan to remember....with a splash of Burton.
     
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  14. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    20th Century-Fox films are not Marvel films (until this month). Sony Pictures is doing films "in association with" Marvel Studios, which is how the last Spiderman film was released. It may be a vague distinction, but it is a distinction. The two Fantastic Four films were strictly Fox, with zero input from Marvel. The list of bona fide Marvel Studios (aka "Marvel Cinematic Universe") films is here:

    List of Marvel Cinematic Universe films - Wikipedia
     
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  15. genesim

    genesim Forum Resident

    Location:
    St. Louis
    Why point out the obvious? Apparently you missed the underlined word in the quote from Olompali ? I think everyone in this thread and beyond are well aware of the MCU and what that entails.
     
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  16. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    Point 1 - The problem with those movies - Man of Steel, B v S, Justice League - isn't Cavill. It was the poor writing and directing. I think he makes a great Superman.

    Point 2 - DC know their films are awful and probably think they need to reboot the whole thing, to start again. And they could do that. But they will be keeping Gadot as her film was a big hit commercially and critically so if they are keeping her then why not Cavill as well?

    Point 3 - A possible Black Superman. Now I have no issues here with female led films or black superheroes at all. But I just wish they wouldn't change these iconic characters just to get a new demographic. Be it Superman or James Bond or Doctor Who. If you want to have female and black heroes then create new ones instead of just making an established character change. To me it's lazy and shows lack of imagination and vision. Don't make James Bond female, just create a new female spy series. I wouldn't have any issue at all if Marvel's next 10 films were all female led or non-white led, think it would be great, but not by merely changing an existing character.

    I really like Michael B Jordan and think he was great in BP but slightly wasted as a talent like that could be a regular in the MCU as either a hero or recurring villain. Seemed a waste to just kill him off after one film. He was dreadful in FF but then everyone was, but that's another example of changing a character to fit a demographic. The FF were supposed to be a family and so they make Sue adopted? Pointless.

    There are also a whole mess of issues involved if you make Supes black. If you remember in the comic Red Son, Superman's birth pod thing lands in Russia instead of the US, and it's an interesting What If and how would he have grown up being brainwashed by communists. You drop a black Superman in the US and how do Ma and Pa Kent explain that? What about his world view as he grows up the victim of racism or sees a country treating some people very differently. I think it would essentially change the nature of the character, he would be a more cynical and angry person more in line with the whole X-Men narrative. He's no longer the naïve innocent farm boy. I'm sure that would make a great 'Elseworlds' story in itself but I'm not so sure it should be in the films.
     
  17. jimbutsu

    jimbutsu WATCH YÖUR STEPPE

    Just give me a Jon Hamm Batman and do whatever you want with all the rest.
     
  18. Ken_McAlinden

    Ken_McAlinden MichiGort Staff

    Location:
    Livonia, MI
    Cavill was never the problem. I wish him well.

    I think the DC-distributed Milestone Media imprint handled the idea of a "black Superman" pretty well when Dwayne McDuffie created the Icon character in the early 90s. I would rather see an adaptation of that.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits, Abbie & Mitzi: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    You'd think so, but audiences continue to flock to the movies, so I don't see an end to comic book flicks in the near future... :shrug:
     
  20. eddiel

    eddiel Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    :laugh: It's been a slow painful morning (my knee hurts) and your post gave me a much needed laugh.
     
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  21. Quadboy

    Quadboy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Leeds,England
    Have Michael Jordan as a black Brainiac if they wish to include him.
    They really need to try one more standalone film with Cavill taking on multiple viilains not featured in films previously.
     
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  22. seed_drill

    seed_drill Senior Member

    Location:
    Tryon, NC, USA
    Possibly not, since, present company aside, they appeal primarily to a certain age demographic, and there are constantly new kids aging into the demo.
     
  23. Bobby Buckshot

    Bobby Buckshot Heavy on the grease please

    Location:
    Southeastern US
    Whatever happens, no one needs another Superman origin story. Or Batman origin for that matter. It's all well-known American pop folklore at this point.
     
  24. GodShifter

    GodShifter Forum Member

    Location:
    Dallas, TX, USA
    Cavill was good as you were going to get as Superman. Looked the part and did a good job acting. That said, I liked Affleck as Batman.

    Whatever though; these roles are going to change constantly with reboots and actors aging and whatever else. I’m no huge superhero fan so whatever happens I’m okay with it.
     
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  25. BadJack

    BadJack doorman who always high-fives children of divorce

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    You know you want it!

    [​IMG]
     
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