Superman - Cavill Out!?

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Chazro, Sep 12, 2018.

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  1. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!

    LOL...
     
  2. The Hud

    The Hud Breath of the Kingdom, Tears of the Wild

    We have enough Superman and Batman movies for awhile, I could go for some about characters I am not that familiar with.
     
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  3. Chazro

    Chazro Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    West Palm Bch, Fl.
    One of the most frustrating aspects of WB's handling of DC is how seemingly clueless the 'suits' are about the vast DC catalog. Forget about the outstanding stories available featuring characters they've already used (there's SO many!). DC has deep reservoirs of tales from the past; Westerns, War, legacy superheros, and the future and interplanetary science fiction. Howzabout supernatural horror and mystery!? It's all right there, right under their noses, the stories are ALREADY WRITTEN and told! Literally 1000's of books! Aren't storyboards used in the making of movies? Use the comic books as storyboards! Its so obvious to me that the decision makers, the suits, aren't fans and are totally clueless!
     
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  4. PhilBorder

    PhilBorder Senior Member

    Location:
    Sheboygan, WI
    He should move on. He's a good actor that deserved better scripts and direction. WB needs him, he doesn't need them.
     
  5. Olompali

    Olompali Forum Resident

    Cave Carson?
    Sea Devils?
    Haunted Tank?
     
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  6. The Hud

    The Hud Breath of the Kingdom, Tears of the Wild

    I have never heard of any of those, so I would be interested.
     
    Olompali likes this.
  7. After the three strikes that were Man of Steel, Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice and Suicide Squad, I didn't even care going into Justice League. I'm hoping that the departure of Cavill and Affleck leads to not only a total reboot of the DCEU, but a serious reconsideration of the DC/WB approach to adapting comic books. Marvel has rarely put a foot wrong and established a significant lead over years - not by rapidly throwing excrement at the proverbial wall in the hope something would eventually stick, going straight for a crossover extravaganza without the necessary build up to this event (also, they avoided killing off a primary character just two installments into their own franchise). Did anyone honestly believe the bean counters behind the scenes were going to let the DCEU slate continue on its planned trajectory after a string of critical failures? All I'm wishing for now is that when the reset button is inevitably hit, the powers that be hire someone who isn't afraid to follow the source material. For all their efforts to use Superman then Batman as springboards for the current film continuity, those in control seemingly didn't have much faith in their supposed flagship heroes, as the depictions were lost in hours of expensive nihilism that rarely functioned as basic entertainment. From its very beginning, the DCEU was fundamentally doomed, and it's a shame hundreds of millions had to be invested before the obvious settled in... Unfortunately, a more optimistic cinematic universe will now be mostly dismissed as a kneejerk reaction to this past folly, even when it should have been the direction taken all along. Holding up Wonder Woman as the lone success to date and a possible savior going ahead is completely the wrong move to make, as that film only performed as well because it wasn't entirely consumed by darkness, not due to it containing some great winning formula! On the other hand, perhaps recent events will lead to a collapse of the entire genre through that burnout we've all been warned to expect for a while? Either way, I'm just grateful for something positive I'll forever be able to show my kids some day. In short, for all its flaws, Christopher Reeve's take on Superman remains the definitive movie experience.
     
  8. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    You know, that's actually not a bad idea.

    Marvel went out of their way to say, "since we're rebooting Spiderman again with a third actor, we're not going to re-tell the origin story again but just tell new stories." And I think that was a good decision.

    People tend to forget how bad a movie like Superman Returns was, which basically was Bryan Singer's 2004 attempt to remake the best of the Christopher Reeve Superman 1 and Superman 2 but with new actors and a revised plot. The problem was, it didn't really do anything new or different, plus it cost $200M and made $400M worldwide. Normally, a film that makes $400M would be a hit, but WB expected at least $500M or more, which upset Singer quite a bit. The studios keep raising budgets and raising expectations on these films, and it's a distressing trend. Note that Superman vs. Batman made $875 million on a $300M budget, and that was considered a little disappointing because it didn't match the $1 billion mark of six top Marvel films:

    Marvel Cinematic Universe Movies at the Box Office - Box Office Mojo

    As I remarked last year after the relative failure of Justice League (cost $300M / gross $657M), that's the kind of film that gets a lot of people fired... and it did. WB canned the heads of distribution, marketing, the director, and the head of the DC Comics film division, and cancelled several major film projects and fired the actors who played Batman and Superman (among several others). That's a train wreck by any definition.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
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  9. Madness

    Madness "Hate is much too great a burden to bear."

    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    Just saw the trailer yesterday for Shazzam before The Nun. It looks incredibly stupid.
     
  10. dmiller458

    dmiller458 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midland, Michigan
    It looks like it could be funny ala Deadpool.
     
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  11. Encuentro

    Encuentro Forum Resident

    I think that’s what they’re going for, intentionally campy and silly. They probably figured it would be difficult to pull off a “serious” big-screen, live-action presentation of Shazam!, so why not go for something silly with a lot of heart, a zany superhero movie meets Big. It probably has a low budget relative to most major studio superhero films, so modest success at the box office has the potential to turn them a nice profit.
     
  12. SquishySounds

    SquishySounds Yo mama so fat Thanos had to snap twice.

    Location:
    New York
    [​IMG]
     
  13. AlmanacZinger

    AlmanacZinger Zingin'

    Location:
    The Land of Zaat
    Yikes and ouch! These huge films in the new century really have some serious stakes! I remember in the 90s when the "model" was a few cheap indie films would make decent returns and a studio would attempt a blockbuster or two every couple years. Spread out the interests and money. Now it seems it's all eggs in one basket.
     
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  14. The Hermit

    The Hermit Wavin' that magick glowstick since 1976

    The trouble with a character like Superman is how limited he is for continued dramatic storytelling; he's a big blue boy scout who never lies, has no private life, and is virtually an immortal god on earth... he's more of an idiom than anything else... he's sort of like Jack Bauer in that it's the conflicts and characters around him that make him interesting rather than the character himself.

    Superman Returns was a somewhat dull film that could have been improved had it been shot on 35mm film, had brighter cinematography, and better casting (Routh was too bland, Bosworth was woefully miscast; both were far too young-looking for those characters)... but bad? Nah, I don't think so. In truth, it suffered the way every film post-Superman II has suffered, and that's because those first two Chris Reeve films so defined and captured the overall mythos of that character, there really isn't anywhere left to go after that... once you get past the origin story, foiling a crazy Lex Luthor scheme, battling alien villains who want to take over Earth (frankly, I'd let them have it!), romancing Lois and realizing they can never be together for the sake of the greater good, there really isn't much meat left on the bones once all that's been cooked, is there?

    Once I have the respective theatrical cuts of Superman: The Movie and Superman II on 4K UHD Blu-ray, I'm done with the Last Son of Krypton... Reeve was simply irreplaceable and no-one but Donner/Lester has come close to getting it right since... that was forty years ago!!!
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
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  15. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Naw, I think the look of Superman Returns had nothing to do with the disappointing reviews and box office. I think the story kinda sucked and the characters didn't go anywhere new. I will reveal there were some enormous technical problems with the movie because it was shot on the early Panavision digital cameras, which required about half a million dollars worth of fixes for various problems. Let's just say that 2006 was a little early for digital. Now, the whole thing works very well.

    But plot and character are still huge challenges. It is true that when you have a lead character who's essentially invulnerable, it's a problem to come up with new story ideas that will engage the audience. They've done it pretty well in the comic books for decades, but pulling this off in film is tricky. Superman Returns was also hurt by not having enough action and running almost 2-1/2 hours, which is deadly for genre films like this.
     
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  16. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    DC owns Planetary and The Authority I think. Those were two of the best comics around the turn of the decade. They should just do those and stop focusing on Superman and Batman.
     
  17. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    And it's most exciting action piece was the plane rescue near the beginning. It felt like tbe movie peaked early and the rest made you feel like checking your watch.

    I think it's fatal flaw is that it really didn't tell a new story and the new angle it did introduce (Superman as an unintentional dead beat dad) was so out of place. Also Kate Bosworth is a decent actress, but a horrible Lois, or at least as a continuation of Margot Kidder's Lois. Brandon Routh was a bit too young looking but his performance was fine and the rest of the cast was good.

    The idea of treating the Donner film and the Lester version of II as the origin and moving forward without rehashing the origin was actually not a bad idea on paper. The problem was then they also preceded to remake the original film too. If they just simply moved ahead with a new stand alone story with a new villain like say, Brainiac or Metallo and only made reference to the past only in some visuals ( like whenever Superman went to The fortress, it would clearly be the crystal version, or a nod to General Zod's take over of earth or Luthor's plot in a framed newspaper in Perry White's office ) and not gone into the whole "Superman disappeared for 5 years after ending II by promising the president he would never leave again and oh by the way he knocked Lois up before he left" stuff , the conceit of loosely continuing the Donner verse may have worked.


    As far as the the DCEU, I didn't hate it nearly as much as some did and i rather liked large parts of both MAN OF STEEL and BvS Ultimate Edition. However it just didn't work for the majority of movie goers and those films did have fundamental problems that could have been overcome before JUSTICE LEAGUE pretty much ruined the bed. After the movie we got there failed both as a movie and financially, there was no going back, which is unfortunate for Cavill, because he is a very good Superman and it's a shame he likely is gone through no fault of his own.
     
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  18. I was one of those fans screaming for Superman Returns in the period leading up to its release, but any lingering excitement quickly turned to disappointment. For all Bryan Singer's talk of wanting to be faithful to the continuity established by Richard Donner and Tom Mankiewiecz, the end result was a dreary sea of murky colours with no optimism at all. Yes, the Man of Steel was indeed back, but what exactly did he do apart from rescue a plane (ironically carrying Lois Lane on the very same day Clark Kent returned to find that she'd moved on, having written an award-winning piece that wrote off the world's supposed need for Superman)? After years of holding my breath for perfection, the Fortress of Solitude was resurrected as a dead, lifeless shell, and despite the expensive presence of Marlon Brando's likeness, there was no sign of the unlikely intergalactic connection that once existed between Jor-El and his son. I've seen many people complain that Man of Steel was Zack Snyder's extreme reaction to criticisms directed at Superman Returns, with the biggest problem being that Bryan Singer's movie lacked any great action pieces. To a similar degree, you could say the same for Donner's intended version of Superman II, where you don't even get to see Superman doing anything remotely super until Clark and Lois reach Niagra Falls!

    Back to Superman Returns again, its biggest crime was concentrating on Lex Luthor once again. As mentioned earlier in this thread, a major weakness of Superman as a character is that he's virtually invulnerable to anything except Kryptonite, so this naturally becomes a crutch for scriptwriters. "Returns" took this to its logical conclusion, though I will admit that it would have been interesting to see where Singer and his team might have gone next. I've read that they planned to have the so-called New Krypton thrown into space become inhabited by Brainiac, who then came to our planet, where he won over humanity and brought full circle the article Lois once penned about how our world doesn't need Superman, after all. To make his latest conflict even more personal, Brainiac was also to have succeeded in recruiting Superman's own son against him, creating the kind of challenge that Christopher Reeve never had to face. I'd have been up for that, were it not for DC and WB again retreating to the drawing board, where they eventually saw the miracles Christopher Nolan had accomplished with the Batman franchise as their new foundation. At the very least, you couldn't ever accuse the centrepiece movies of the DCEU of boring their viewers, but even constant stimulation and dark imagery couldn't prove entertaining for long. If only there was a middle ground between the two very different approaches that isn't the bland cinematic experience Superman Returns ultimately turned out to be...
     
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  19. keefer1970

    keefer1970 Metal, Movies, Beer!

    Location:
    New Jersey
    I would totally pay to see a Haunted Tank movie!
     
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  20. Chazro

    Chazro Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    West Palm Bch, Fl.
    DC had so many fine, long-running, WWII-era characters and books but my favorite would be one from WWI; Enemy Ace! Now THAT'S a character that looks exactly like Jon Hamm!;)
     
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  21. Luke The Drifter

    Luke The Drifter Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    I really liked Man of Steel. And I really like Cavill.

    They need to do a soft reboot with Wonder Woman and Superman intact. Maybe Aquaman depending on how this film goes.
     
  22. dkmonroe

    dkmonroe A completely self-taught idiot

    Location:
    Atlanta
    I'd go see that movie!
     
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  23. dkmonroe

    dkmonroe A completely self-taught idiot

    Location:
    Atlanta
    Cavill was good as Superman but they need to get different writers or directors. DC needs to get away from this "dark and gritty" crap and make their characters fun again.
     
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  24. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits, Abbie & Mitzi: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    That's the plan for "Shazam" but some people are complaining it looks too lightweight! :help:
     
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  25. The Hermit

    The Hermit Wavin' that magick glowstick since 1976

    That's one of the things that you really can't defend with ...Returns; how would Superman's potential earthly offspring even have superpowers to begin with...? His powers derive from the fact that he's a Kryptonian-born alien living in a different star system with a different molecular density... surely that wouldn't apply to a kid born on planet Earth regardless of his semi-Kryptonian parentage...

    It's true that Superman Returns didn't add anything of substance, but I think it would have worked better had it not been tied so directly to the Donner movies... it should and could have been it's own thing... and even Singer agrees with that assessment now.
     
    David Campbell likes this.
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