Supertramp "Crime of the Century" - mastering comparison & discussion *

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Lucidae, May 21, 2015.

  1. Dan Steele

    Dan Steele Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago suburbs
    Was never a big Supertramp fan, but after stumbling upon Roger Hodgson’s Eye of the Storm, and really enjoying the music, I checked out Crime of the Century from the library and was blown away. Since MOFI version is a little pricey I went on the hunt and this week found 2 early (?) versions. Read your post pk, but as usual it is way above my knowledge level so looking for some clarity please. Both are Audio Master Plus CD-3647.
    The bottom one is Made in Japan and has Compact Disc CSR x3 in the hub. Matrix DIDX-25 21 +++++
    The top one is Made in USA, has the dot matrix style matrix of CD-3647 4A2 D7Y
    I think based on your comments the made in Japan CSR is from 1984 (didx-25)?
     
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  2. Dan Steele

    Dan Steele Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago suburbs
    Couldnt get the image to paste above, so had to put it in a new post....

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. princesskiki

    princesskiki Kiki's Mom

    I am glad that you are enjoying Crime Of The Century. I think this album is similar to Pink Floyd's Dark Side Of The Moon in terms of audiophile-quality sound and quality of music!

    To answer your question, the CSR with the DIDX matrix would be from late 1984 or sometime in 1985 (due to the "+++++" sign in the matrix, which began appearing on CSR discs in late '84).
    The Denon disc is from the "transition period" in November of 1987, meaning when Denon U.S. plant became operational but still did not have the glass mastering capacity. From around August of '87 (I can't remember the exact month) to about the end of '87, Denon U.S. manufactured many CD's using Denon Japan's glass master or stamper. These all have the "dot matrix" font style.

    If you want to hear what the original mixed down tapes would sound like, your best bet in digital would be your CSR CD. :wave:
     
  4. Dan Steele

    Dan Steele Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago suburbs
    Thanks, as always!
     
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  5. Andreas

    Andreas Senior Member

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    Hide In Your Shell seems to be a different mix on the MFSL CD compared to the older A&M CD, the vocals and saxophone parts are much lower in volume compared to keyboards and drums, the mix is actually weaker that way. It is the only song where this is the case. The A&M CD has notably more hiss and some compression.
     
  6. marcb

    marcb Senior Member

    Location:
    DC area
    A different mix??
     
  7. Flaming Torch

    Flaming Torch Forum Resident

    Interesting and apologies for reading this thread a year late. I have numerous cds, vinyl and the blu-ray of this fine album. As far as I recall this is the album that took Supertramp to household name status (at least in the UK). I am surprised that A&M would allow the producer (Ken Scott) to take his time as at this point the band had not really sold many records. Just my thoughts but my guess is after the success of this album the band would have been in a strong position re future albums.
    I do not have a high resolution download of COTC but is it the same source/sound etc as the blu-ray and recent 2014 master?
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
  8. Andreas

    Andreas Senior Member

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    Have you listened to the MFSL CD and compared Hide In Your Shell to any other released version? Maybe the common version is sourced from the same mix, but the difference seems to be more than just compression and eq.
     
  9. yesstiles

    yesstiles Senior Member

    My MFSL Made in USA has no barcode.

    Which sounds better anyway - the USA or the Japan disc?
     
    Dan Steele likes this.
  10. StarThrower62

    StarThrower62 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Syracuse, NY
    I have the crappy 2002 re-masters. Way too bright.
     
    Darren Richardson likes this.
  11. tlake6659

    tlake6659 Senior Member

    Location:
    NJ
    Should be digitally identical.
     
  12. tlake6659

    tlake6659 Senior Member

    Location:
    NJ
    Though the 2014 remaster is pretty dynamic, it still has some digital peak limiting. I ran it through Audacity's clip fix and it is now my favorite version. I always found the MFSL CD to be too bright, and I prefer the eq. of the remaster.
     
    tipunch likes this.
  13. Instant Karma

    Instant Karma Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    Hi princesskiki,
    First, I apologies for resurrecting a 2 year old post. I read through it and it was excellent and very informative. I have the Japanese CSR cd DIDX 25 and there is no etching in the inner plastic hub. I was just wondering if that is normal for the CSR's. I went through all of the different listings in Discogs and couldn't find any that said there wasn't a matrix. There were quite a few so it is possible I missed one. Thank you very much.
     
  14. princesskiki

    princesskiki Kiki's Mom

    Hi. I am not sure whether your CD has no "CSR..." or "CBS/Sony..." embossed on the plastic ring OR no matrix NEAR the hub.
    I have CBS/Sony Japan CD's from early 1983 and beyond that have nothing embossed on the plastic ring. This is not rare.
    As for no matrix near the hub, I have not personally seen one but someone just posted on "Share your first pressing CD" thread (in Long and Winding Thread section) that they have found a Japan for US (CSR) Thriller CD with no visible matrix.
    At least on couple of occasions, I thought I had run into a CSR CD with no matrix, but under a strong light at a certain angle, I was able to see the matrix.
    Also, there are some CSR CD's that have two same matrices (probably an error).
     
  15. Sax-son

    Sax-son Forum Resident

    Location:
    Three Rivers, CA
    I like the original pressing. It's good enough for me.
     
  16. Instant Karma

    Instant Karma Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    Thank you so much for your reply. After reading your post, I took out a strong magnifying glass and under a bright light I was able to see a very faint matrix. CD-3647 2A8 79. There is definitely no CSR on the plastic ring though. I do seem to remember you saying once that there is a pressing of 'Houses Of The Holy" that does not have a matrix, but I could be misremembering. :) I do really like this Japan for US Crime Of The Century disc. Sounds great even on my modest systems.
     
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  17. john lennonist

    john lennonist There ONCE was a NOTE, PURE and EASY...

    Just dropping into the thread now.

    What are the opinions of the Japanese AM+ D32Y2556 CD (from 1987)?
     
  18. BKphoto

    BKphoto JazzAllDay

    I have this and breakfast in the Canadian audiophile series 1/2 mastered, pressed in Japan....both going for over 100 bucks...and in the condition mine are in probably more..

    going to give these a spin this afternoon...

    [​IMG]


    Surprised how much they have climbed in value in the last 5 years...obviously these are thought of as better than the MSFL copies, as far as price goes..
     
  19. Pandrew79

    Pandrew79 Swimming.

    I'll throw in my few cents. I just compared:
    US 1st Press
    MFSL Vinyl

    Of the two I prefer the MFSL. The MFSL is on much quieter vinyl than the US to begin with. The US 1st Press has a wider soundstage and is a more enveloping listen overall. However, the mastering on the US 1st Press is less polished and has a more intimate sound (very 1970's), it can be slightly abrasive and harsh on the ears at times. The MFSL sounds very pleasing on the ears (more detail and crispness) and it sounds less dated than the US 1st press. However, I prefer "Dreamer" on the US press vs. the MFSL (it's very atmospheric and fits the song). Otherwise I'll probably be spinning the MFSL.
     
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  20. Jrr

    Jrr Forum Resident

    My go to has always been the MFSL and I’ve heard many versions. The only one I would trade for is their HQ version that goes for $450 plus if you can even find one. It is supposed to be easily the very best. Speakers Corner is second but I prefer my MFSL.
     
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  21. Jrr

    Jrr Forum Resident

    Not really. I am not real impressed with anything in that series. I have 2-3 Supertramp albums from that series and if you truly want the best, there are better versions. The good news is, you can at least sell them for good money and get a MFSL or whatever. Price doesn’t always mean it’s the best. The newer MFSL of BIA is far better and supposedly being repressed.
     
    DeRosa likes this.
  22. BKphoto

    BKphoto JazzAllDay

    Well, they are better than the originals which may be the brightest albums ever made...
     
  23. Scottb

    Scottb Senior Member

    Location:
    Nanuet, NY, USA
    So with Audacity you were able to remove the peak limiting? I'm not very technical when it comes to using these audio programs.
     
  24. tlake6659

    tlake6659 Senior Member

    Location:
    NJ
    Yes.
     
  25. DeRosa

    DeRosa Vinyl Forever

    Being from Canada, I would see those "Audiophile Series" copies in the $2 bin 20 years ago, i picked them up long ago,
    thinking they would be better than the originals I had. They are not good sounding, they lack any punch and lower frequencies are rolled off.
    The Breakfast in America version in particular is pretty terrible sounding record.
     
    Jrr likes this.

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