Surround music R.I.P.

Not trying to be snarky, but who has 6.0? (I presume that infers 6 full-range speakers.)

And where is the source material (or even a decoder/processor) so it can be played precisely?

 

The six speaker thing was a short lived thing where there was an additional matrixed surround back.

It was short lived because surround sound is a concept to keep Best Buy etc in business, so naturally using 7 speakers vs. 6 replaced it in short order.

 

I have heard "imaging getting completely destroyed" on near field setups with two speakers but with multichannel, I can't imagine getting caught up in all that unless you're within a few feet from your four speakers. That would be a very small room or listening area. Complacating a simple four channel recording into six channels by means of fake added channels is a very strange direction to take and seems counterproductive.

 

Didn't know that. I guess I need to search the "best buy" conspiracy threads.

I always thought the conspiracy was small speakers and a subwoofer that are easy to ship vs large full range speakers.

 

I'm describing "home theater churn", not really anything to do with multi-channel Hi-Fi. Changes of little actual importance that seem to do more with encouraging you to replace your year old receiver with a new one then adding value. What are we up to now? Like 11.2 + height + presence or something? I'm curious how many folks have even found the room for 5.1 without going cube.

 

Ah. Simple math. Unsuspected, by me.

I never bought the Sweet Spot argument against 5.1, or anything else for that matter. There certainly is a Sweet Spot, for surround and stereo, but as music enthusiasts we'll necessarily sit there for critical listening. Duh. If one moves around, the soundstage will be altered, but not Profoundly Ruined. If I'm engaged in housecleaning, I won't know or care exactly where the alto sax is located in the room.

Who am I kidding? I NEVER clean this dump.

 

America - Homecoming is one 5.1 mix that benefits greatly from an added center channel vs running a 4.0 setup with center turned off and blending in the center info to the front main speakers.

Problem is, many 5.1 mixes add very little to the center in comparison. The dot one sub channel is even more unpredictable and varies greatly from release to release.

Height speakers for 3D audio enhances some films but for music, it is a long ways off. It will happen, like you said, to sell more speakers, but for music, there is only a handful of titles and most will sound equally as good with a standard multichannel setup.

 

So what's next, then?

Maybe Best Buy colludes (hey, EVERYbody's doin' it!) with Big Medical to create multichannel audio brain implants. With routine upgrades of course. If you think Atmos is expensive, wait til the surgical bills start piling up.

But it will go great with the 3D-4D-5D holograms.

To Infinity, and beyond!

 

I did think about it - a lot. Which is why my main HT is the way it is.

Jeff

ps. Your mono challenge would not work in my main HT. The bass does sound essentially the same over a relatively large listening area. (Of course if you wanted to sit a foot away from any speaker stack, or right on top of any of the subs, then yes, you're correct.)

 

I think the more relevant question is: How many people actually have Surround Sound setups in the home in 2018?

I had one years ago, but simply realized that surround wasnt worth the effort, and that I'd really rather hear music in beautiful stereo.

 

I really enjoy Homecoming's 5.1 mix. But I also really like the 4.0 mix for Heart's.

Since Steve was involved with both (at least according to my SACDs' notes) perhaps he could share his opinion?

Jeff

 

Interesting question.

I wonder how many people would have downgraded from surround to stereo? I suspect very few (as a percentage) who set up capable systems and acquired the content to go with it. I therefore think that an answer to the question is "almost everyone who had a surround sound setup in 2017."

I suppose I might - if I sold my house and moved to a small apartment or condo. But then again, who needs a bedroom anyhow?

Jeff

 

Same. Went 2.0 and never looked back. For movies and music both.

 

Why would 4.0 sound better when it isn't properly set up?

Properly set up 4.0 doesn't have "rear" speakers. It has front and side speakers. If you move your head back a couple inches...oops, suddenly your "rear" speakers are in front of your head and the soundstage is ruined.

Nobody is advocating adding fake channels to make 4.0 into 6.0. I'm saying that you can't get a true surround sound experience with quad unless you sit perfectly still in the exact correct position. It's not a matter of opinion, it's a mathematical fact. With 6.0 or more you can technically sit anywhere inside the circle and have a true surround sound experience. At least as far as 2-D surround sound goes...I don't even want to think about 3-D surround sound because just the idea of it gives me a headache.

You presumed correctly. I said you need to have *at least* 6.0 surround sound to do it right. There is plenty of 7.1 source material out there, and it can all be down-mixed to 6.0 without losing anything. Many digital media players, receivers, and home theater processors can perform this basic function.

 

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There is very little music 7.1 mixes out there. Movies, yes. I don't really care very much about movies but if that is your thing great. Gladly I don't have any problems with 4.0 or 5.1 that you mentioned. Creating a solid front AND rear soundstage is very doable with "only" four full range speakers. My near field system is separate from my multichannel system, I can freely move my head around without affecting the sound quality on my multichannel rig thankfully.

I prefer my ears on my setups rather than mathmatic facts as you put it. While you crunch the numbers and over think it, I will be enjoying my music. Have fun!

 

Surround music WILL NEVER BE DEAD IN MY HOUSE.

 

Sports without rear speakers suck in comparison. A lot of effort goes into sound during sporting events these days. World Cup on Fox sounded amazing, especially considering it was in Russia. Stanley Cup and NBA finals also sounded incredibly great. Movies do sound great in multichannel, I just don't watch many of them, although the newest Kong movie was about the best movie surround experience I have ever heard.

 

I can listen to 4.0 quad mixes and they sound excellent whether I sit still or not when sitting at the MLP. How can one "sit anywhere" inside the circle of a 6.0 setup and have true surround? If one is sitting by the left front or right surround speaker they are in no way experiencing a "true surround" experience. In that scenario one will hear more of the speaker they are sitting closest to and not experiencing "true surround". Please explain this "mathematical fact" you are alluding to.

 

"Guitar groups are on the way out."

 

as are school music programs...….

 

He is obviously a movie fan in a music thread. Don't take him too seriously. His side speakers comment told me all I need to know.

 

True. One would think the thread title "Surround music R.I.P" would be clear enough .

 

I have hope. Maybe he will learn something. I do get the slight head turning thing, but like I said, only in near field speaker setups which very few people have in multichannel. One of my listening spots has a chair with tilt, swivel and height adjustment.

 

A quick glance at my post history will tell you exactly what kind of fan I am.

It's ironic that you're telling people to not take me too seriously when you still don't even understand what I am saying. The only way to have an accurate front, rear, AND side soundstage with 4.0 is to have your rear speakers where side speakers would be: at +90 and -90 degrees. Maybe you can get away with moving the rear speakers back a few more degrees so you can move your head slightly without ruining the rear soundstage. But if you move the speakers back any more than that, it will destroy the side soundstage. There's very little room for error with quad.

Unfortunately, I can't fully enjoy the music when there's a hole in any one of the 3 soundstages. If you can, then I envy your ability to train your ears to ignore it.

First you said that you don't experience the effect at all when you move your head, now you're changing your story to say that you do experience it? Which is it? It's obvious that you don't intend on having a serious discussion in good faith. All you want to do is talk down to me so I'm not sure if I should even continue the conversation anymore.

Because with quad or 5.1, you're only making a half circle with the speakers, so the other half of the circle is out of bounds. With 6.0 you're making a full circle with the speakers, which means true surround. The fact that some speakers are louder than others when you're not at the listening position is irrelevant, because all that means is you're probably not hearing the mix or the soundstage that the engineer intended you to hear.

 

I’m using the parasound P7 in a second system. The way I hooked it up was, Oppo 205 direct analog outs into the parasound for front (l/r) and rear speakers. When I’m playing surround I connect the balanced front output into my main amp and when I’m playing stereo source material I connect my stereo preamp outputs into my main amp.