Symbol on mid-80s CBS Records releases... ???

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by DJMurphy, Dec 30, 2006.

  1. Mr Bass

    Mr Bass Chevelle Ma Belle

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic
    Their digital audio joint operation leading to the complete corporate takeover of CBS Records by Sony.
     
  2. morgan1098

    morgan1098 Forum Resident

    I have to believe there are more WEA discs out there with the symbol. Surely that lone John Coltrane title can't be the only one? That won't help us find a definitive answer, of course, but it just seems unlikely that the symbol would appear on just a single WEA disc in someone's collection.
     
    aoxomoxoa likes this.
  3. aoxomoxoa

    aoxomoxoa I'm an ear sitting in the sky

    Location:
    USA
    I smell photo shop! Just kidding
     
    EasterEverywhere likes this.
  4. elvissinatra

    elvissinatra Forum Resident

    Location:
    Michigan
    Here's my latest theory, based on this article in the Jan 12, 1985 Billboard:

    Billboard

    It's an interview with Scott Spector, engineering manager for Sony Digital Audio, and he's talking about CD quality control:

    "Our biggest problem has been the education of the mastering houses as to how to properly prepare a CD master tape."

    The article goes on to say, "Sony Digital is also manufacturing specific equipment for sale to duplication houses to aid in improving the quality of disks produced. [...] And for mastering houses, Sony manufactures the DTA-2000, a $3,000 tape analyzer that provides computer printouts of the condition of the PCM-1610 master tape" and that it will soon be a required supplement to the master tape.

    My theory is that the symbol means the CD, cassette, or record was created using an approved, cd-worthy master tape, or possibly even a PCM-1610 digital master.

    I found a Scott Spector on twitter and asked him for any insight. We'll see if he replies.
     
  5. Bobby Buckshot

    Bobby Buckshot Heavy on the grease please

    Location:
    Southeastern US
    If your theory turns out to be true I think you should win a free AF release! (and that goes for anyone who solves this riddle should this theory fall flat).
     
  6. therockman

    therockman Senior Member In Memoriam

    Great, I am

    Great, I am sure that Scott will know something;

    Scott E. Spector | Spector Group
     
  7. Mr Bass

    Mr Bass Chevelle Ma Belle

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic
    So it took them more than 7 years to figure that out??
     
  8. aoxomoxoa

    aoxomoxoa I'm an ear sitting in the sky

    Location:
    USA
    This coincides with my theory
     
  9. elvissinatra

    elvissinatra Forum Resident

    Location:
    Michigan
    Looking back, it looks like quicksrt already came up with "my" "new" theory back in 2009 on page 3!
     
  10. scribbs

    scribbs Resident Mockery

    Location:
    Surf City USA
    I emailed Spector requesting him to give an ambiguous response, because this is the best thread of all time.
     
  11. Correct on Sony relationship with CBS at the time before and after the acquisition.

    However, only the Sony DADC CD plant in Terre Haute, IN was a joint venture of CBS and Sony it was through CBS/Sony Records (a separate company in Japan from Sony Music's global relationship) initially in Japan until Sony Corporate bought out the CBS ownership in 1985 to create the current Sony DADC business that owns most of Sony's optical disc manufacturing businesses globally. The other manufacturing and distribution plants (Pitman, NJ for CDs and Carrolton, GA, for example) from CBS were added with the Sony take over of CBS Records.

    So this symbol was used on both CBS made items, Sony made items, and non-Sony and non-CBS made items below:
    1. CBS CDs made at Sony DADC (Terre Haute, IN), Sony SDM (Pitman, NJ) that were on CBS labels and were sold at retail or Columbia House.
    2. Canadian market CDs that were made at either US Sony plant, but not on the same titles made in Canada at Cinram or Disque Americ.
    3. CBS CDs made for the US market at non-Sony plants also had them - JVC, Denon in both Japan and US plants, and other such as PDO in both W.Germany and USA, and Shape in the USA.
    4. Cassettes made in the US - many at Carrolton, GA
    5. Records - 7" and 12"
    The only things in common are:

    1. All are US market labeled product - the Canadian discs with the symbol are US market discs with Canadian inserts - i.e. same disc.
    2. Doesn't matter if retail or Columbia House or BMG Record Club - all have symbol. Some promo items for radio have it too.
    3. Product is distributed by CBS or Sony Music in the US, regardless of who manufactured the physical media; there does not seem to be product made during the time period without the symbol.
     
  12. signothetimes53

    signothetimes53 Senior Member

    :laugh:
     
  13. elvissinatra

    elvissinatra Forum Resident

    Location:
    Michigan
    If this is correct -- that the earliest U.S. DADC pressings lacked the symbol -- it might suggest that a policy was put in place to for verified masters. I.e., ones that went through the DTA-2000 process...
     
  14. elvissinatra

    elvissinatra Forum Resident

    Location:
    Michigan
    That Coltrane disc said "MADE BY DADC" right on it. Right?
     
  15. morgan1098

    morgan1098 Forum Resident

    Yes, and there are a ton of other WEA discs out there that were pressed by DADC at some point... many of them probably record club editions. I wonder if any of them can be found with the symbol?
     
  16. Gems-A-Bems

    Gems-A-Bems Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Duke City
    Negatory. The symbol never appears on seven-inch records (excepting 21st-century “retro”-style or callback label designs long after the symbol’s use had been abandoned)
     
  17. Dave S

    Dave S Forum Resident

    None of the ones I have. Nor is the symbol found on CBS releases for the European market, including those CDs pressed by US DADC.
     
    Mr Bass likes this.
  18. Correct - my mistake. What is interesting is that it is on cassette singles.
     
  19. Mr Bass

    Mr Bass Chevelle Ma Belle

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic
    Yes Sony and CBS obviously were concerned about US domestic sales as a separate accounting item. That's why I think this symbol was a HQ corporate decision rather than anything intended for the pressing plants. The apparent cluelessness of pressing plant personnel about the symbol reinforces that. I wonder if the absence of it on 7" vinyl wasn't just a legal oversight.
     
  20. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Yes, but you have some members in stone denial. I would not expect them to wake up and smell the coffee like you did.
     
  21. Gems-A-Bems

    Gems-A-Bems Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Duke City
    “Stone denial” about the fact that this theory doesn’t begin to explain why it never appears on seven-inch records? Or why the symbol appears on LPs that were not, in fact, digitally sourced?
     
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  22. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    What albums that were not digitally sourced? I'm sure there are a few mix ups here and there but I have not seen those LPs.

    And it might be that they decided it was to be mainly an album master marking and not sbout singles.

    I have albums without the mark that are analog, and I have an additional copy with the mark and it's certainly digital. A Dylan album(s), and a Poco 2LP set that went digital after its first pressing in analog.
     
  23. Gems-A-Bems

    Gems-A-Bems Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Duke City
    If I remember correctly, our friend @c-eling found an REO Speedwagon (?) LP with the symbol that was clearly analog-sourced.

    Then why did they include the symbol on thousands of singles? Remember, it’s not on seven-inch singles, but it is on countless twelve-inch, cassette, and CD singles.
     
    c-eling likes this.
  24. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    You mean right about the time 7" singles were starting to be phased out?
     
  25. Gems-A-Bems

    Gems-A-Bems Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Duke City
    Are you claiming the reason the symbol never appears on seven-inch singles is because they didn’t make any during that time, even though they did, except the real reason is that it was never intended for any singles, despite the fact it appears on too many singles to count?

    What were you saying about “stone denial”?
     

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