Taiyo Yuden To Stop Making Blank Media

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Dubmart, Jun 12, 2015.

  1. Jim T

    Jim T Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mars
  2. RoyalScam

    RoyalScam Luckless Pedestrian

    So, those DVD-Rs clearly say "AZO" on the wrapper, so they should be good. But the additional link on that page to the CD-R version does NOT say "AZO" on the wrapper, which seems odd to me.
     
  3. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    Wow! Great article!

    I'm assuming since it's jitter, if there were any commercial CDs out there trashed by it during the same period, here in the era of ripped music and reclocking D/A converters that they'd now actually sound better than they did two decades ago, because modern D/A converters reclock everything.
     
  4. quicksrt

    quicksrt Forum Resident

    Location:
    City of Angels
    Sony, Memorex, and Maxell are all made mainly by CMC which is considered one of the cheapest media makers out there. If you've had good luck with these brands it is due to you having a very good burner.
     
    Vidiot likes this.
  5. Jim T

    Jim T Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mars
    -----------------------
    That was an amazing article penned by the late, great Roger Nichols. And just when you think your work is done.....Whoops. We now know it does matter who presses CDs as well as LPs.
     
    sunspot42 likes this.
  6. BendBound

    BendBound Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Bend, OR
    Media Supply sent out an email today saying Taiyo Yuden/JVC sold the technology for making its CD-Rs (and perhaps DVD-Rs) to a firm in Taiwan. Apparently the last and final real TY CD-Rs were made in December 2015. According to the news release, however, in about 45 days, the new owner's plant (CMC) will be manufacturing CD-Rs that are essentially TY. I also read that in November, CMC announced they would be buying the Taiyo Yuden technology, and begin making media using Taiyo Yuden dye and procedures in their Taiwan plants. Unfortunately, CMC is not known for quality; they made Memorex CD-Rs.

    I deleted the email so I cannot offer more detail. I have no idea for example, if the full line (i.e., Watershield) will be produced.

    I've been using TY Watershield CD-Rs (printable closer to the spindle hole) for about a decade and the number of bad ones I have had can be counted on one hand with fewer than two fingers. I've also had good luck with MAM CD-Rs, but I prefer the glossy TY Watershield printable surface for making mini-LP CDs of my favorite albums or compilations. They look quite professional when printed on an Epson printer with CD printing capabilities.

    As others have done, I've stocked up so I am fixed for a few years. My hope is that the market for CD-Rs is large enough for a few companies to continue to make them. But as some folks have noted, other options are available for those who eschew physical media. All the while, not my father's format keeps bringing back vinyl.

    I've used also TDK, Sony, and Memorex CD-Rs. Memorex had a very high failure rate and frequently after a few months, the CD could not longer be read on my players. The last time I used them was probably a decade ago, so perhaps they are better now. Sony CD-Rs have been fine, notwithstanding variable manufacturing issues noted in these pages. But I simply don't like the way they finish the tops of them, glossy color. I want to print on them, not look at pretty colors they have employed. Same basic issue with TDK, I want more than a silver background and lined places to write text or two.

    At any rate, in a few months, assuming Media Supply has the straight scoop, we may have an opportunity to see if TY-quality CD-Rs live on. Alternatively, FalconMedia has a similar product and they claim to be better than TY at a lower price. See this link: http://www.discmakers.com/shop/falcon-professional-blank-cds.asp.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2016
    Vidiot likes this.
  7. BendBound

    BendBound Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Bend, OR
    Even though I have been an ardent devote to TY WaterShield CD-Rs, I was asleep at the wheel when it came to their closing manufacturing, and as of late 2015, sale of their technology to CMC in Taiwan. As some of us know, CMC does not have the best reputation for making A grade CD-Rs.

    As with some of you, I've stocked up on TY CD-Rs from several suppliers, at effectively the same price level as before or even lower. As noted above, my experience with CD-Rs goes back to 2000 with a Pioneer PDR-609. A few years later, I used an Alesis Masterlink ML-9600 modified by Balanced Power Technologies (their top mod). That got me away from audio or music CD-Rs. I was always concerned about that technology and being able in the future to have coded discs that my 609 could read. Finally, I acquired the Tascam DV-RA1000HD and had that modified by Jim Williams at Audio Upgrades. When you have an many lps as I do, you don't want to re-purchase the music on CD, better to make your own mini-LP CDs, now a hobby of mine.

    All of that is background on the salient question, how to replace the Taiyo Yuden Watershield CD-Rs. Below is a message in an email I got the other day from 'Frank' at Media Supply on JVC/Taiyo Yuden:

    "JVC getting out of the media business and CMC buying up the Taiyo technology is big news, and it means lots of big changes. While we're happy about the Taiyo technology being available via CMC in Taiwan, we have some concerns. We've spent the last 7 months developing our new MediaPro Premium as a safe haven for our customers. When we found we could have the product made with the top-shelf integrity of the AZO dye, we knew this would make transition from the Taiyo blue/green dye that much easier for our customers. The bottom line for Media Supply is that we're in for the long haul in this marketplace, and we'll continue to adapt to make sure the best products are available for our discerning customers."

    So Media Supply has a replacement, they know quality, so I can only imagine that they have designed a suitable replacement. MS does not explicitly state it, but I assume they produce a "Watershield" like replacement. That remains to be seen, but I put it out there to see if any of you know.

    Alternatively, FalconMedia has a similar product and they claim to be better than TY at a lower price. See this link: http://www.discmakers.com/shop/falcon-professional-blank-cds.asp. Yet I don't believe they have an exact WaterShield replacement. But DiscMakers, like Media Supply, has developed their own replacement line. Last week I spoke to Carlo Florio, a tech specialist at DM, and he said in their best house line they had a WaterShield-like replacement. Here is a link to their Ultra line: https://www.discmakers.com/shop/itemgroup.aspx?itemgroup=ultracd. See the last (bottom) two options, dubbed "Hydroshield". These CD-Rs are full hub printable, have a shiny photo-like finish that is smudge free, and the more expensive model (but less costly than TY WS), have silver finish to the bottom like recorded CDs. Mr. Florio told me that while Falcom Professional Media does not have an exact Watershield equivalent product, DiscMakers does, and–this is interesting–they are made for DM by Falcon Professional Media. Falcon Professional Media pride themselves as being a manufacturer to Grade A CD-Rs, so that is most encouraging.

    Here is a blurb on the DM option: "Disc Makers Ultra Hydroshield Diamond Inkjet CD-Rs
    Disc Makers Ultra A-grade Hydroshield professional discs were developed with Falcon Professional Media. These CD-Rs feature photo-realistic print quality and silver bottom for the look of replicated discs! Featuring a hi-def, glossy, smudge-resistant printable surface, Ultra Hydroshields deliver an amazing printed disc - light years beyond any other inkjet printable disc. All Ultra discs set industry standards for compatibility, speed, and playback - guaranteed!"

    I have not tried any of these options, not yet anyway, while I have arranged to try the Falcon and DiscMaker options. It may take me awhile, but I can–assuming there is interest–report back on what I find. In the meantime, I would really like to hear from some of you who have experience with these or other options. Specifically, I am looking for a CD-R that does everything the TY WaterShield CD-Rs do, looks, performance, the full package.
     
  8. RoyalScam

    RoyalScam Luckless Pedestrian

    Fact of the matter is, anything these sellers say is marketing-speak. The proof of "similar to/better than TY" will be in the real-world use by consumers who will put them through the paces and report results accordingly. I'm pretty well stocked with TY for the foreseeable future, but will be looking at reviews from actual users with anticipation.
     
  9. dxer2_2000

    dxer2_2000 New Member

    Location:
    Australia
    I still have a couple of original TDK CD-Rs from 1993 (used) [CD-W12 & CD-W12EL] which are a beautiful shiny 24k Gold & dark green dye on the recording side. I assume the "EL" means extra length as they were sold in both 63min & 74min versions. I keep them in a display case. I'd assume they'd play even after 20 years as they were made from high quality materials.
     
  10. BendBound

    BendBound Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Bend, OR
    I'm with you. Most of us are stocked up on TY blanks. But I will be getting some samples of other options. I will record and print them up and report back. I don't have the software to evaluate read errors, however.
     
  11. BendBound

    BendBound Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Bend, OR
    Today I received from Disc Makers, their Ultra HydroShield White CD-Rs. See this link to the product: https://www.discmakers.com/shop/ItemDetails.aspx?ItemID=CD-032-00008. Two 50 packs retail for $49.00, or 49¢ per CD. This website indicates under "Specs" that they employ a blue dye but the discs look like a commercial CD in color tone, that is silver, whereas Taiyo Yuden WaterShield CD-Rs are decidedly blue. So I'm confused by that. TY WaterShields cost me 62¢ each in the past. These Disc Maker CD-Rs are 700MB, 52X.

    I printed one up today, and it was flawless. The top print surface according to Disc Makers on the "Ultra Grade A professional discs" was developed with state-of-the-art JVC WaterShield technology. They look identical to TY WaterShields on top, even printing from the edge to the hub.

    I'm playing my first printed CD-R. I burned nicely, no issues. DM makes this claim, "All Ultra discs set industry standards for compatibility, speed, and playback - guaranteed!" In my Rotel RCD-1072, the disc cued up quickly and played through without a hitch. Unfortunately, I don't have the software needed to detect read errors.

    DM manufactures these CD-Rs in the United Arab Emirates (UAE), whereas TY WaterShields were made in Japan, until production ended in December 2015.

    Also, DM has introduced a Ultra HydroShield Diamond inkjet CD-R, Item Number: CD-032-00010. These Ultra A-grade Hydroshield professional discs were developed with Falcon Professional Media. As in the CD-R described above, these CD-Rs feature photo-realistic print quality and silver bottom for the look of replicated discs. I looked all over their website for what "Diamond" meant, but was not able to figure that out.

    Also, DM sells Falcon Professional Media, another option to replace TY WaterShield CD-Rs. They say this about them: "Falcon Professional Media is AAA rated in reliability and compatibility. Falcon media is Certified Swiss Quality, Falcon is a world-class manufacturer of optical recordable media. In addition to providing unparalleled reliability, Falcon Pro's optical recording media products feature hub printable surfaces to get maximum results from thermal, inkjet and silkscreened printers." DM offers six different models of FPM CD-Rs, including a gold CD-R. I got a 100-pc cake of their Smart White 52X, 700MB CD-Rs, Item Number: CD-034-00002 (https://www.discmakers.com/shop/ItemDetails.aspx?ItemID=CD-034-00002). These middle of the FPM line CD-Rs are 31¢ each for a 100 order.

    I have not had the time to print these up or to do any other testing. But when I do, I'll report back.

    A final word, I freaked out when I learned that TY/JVC were closing shop and selling their technology to the dreaded CMC. It is too early to tell, but I may have found a suitable replacement. All we can do is try these options, and let others know where what we discover.

    I've done a search of the net on use of Disc Maker CD-Rs. This link is all I found, http://recording.org/threads/best-cd-rs-for-mastering-mixing.34068/. See post #6 and #11 from the some person.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2016
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  12. BendBound

    BendBound Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Bend, OR
    After some researching, I discovered that "Diamond" (see post above) refers to the silver color of the bottom of some Disc Maker CD-Rs and some Falcon Media Pro CD-Rs. Falcon developed the dye, which I've seen called Diamond Silver, while their websites indicates it is: "Pro CD-R diamond features premium phtalocyanine dye which has proven best reliably and highest durability to other types of dye."

    Another tread indicated: "FalconMedia Pro Diamond CD-Rs have a true silver bottom colour. They are virtually indistinguishable from replicated CDs. These discs were previously only available from poor quality manufacturers - but now you can have Falcon AAA-grade media to ensure your discs work perfectly on all compatible devices."

    I was skeptical of these silver CD-Rs when I first saw them, because Memorex manufactured by CMC had this bottom color. I had serious failure with those CD-Rs to the point where I stopped using them and stopped recommending them.
     
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  13. Lord Hawthorne

    Lord Hawthorne Currently Untitled

    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    Thank you for your research on this.
     
  14. shstrang

    shstrang Member

    I'm going to ask a question regarding Falcon media that may get me called " racist" but here goes. I cannot make out the " made in.." label. It says Japanese matertiarals and TDK code and what not.
    But where are they made and has anyone actually tried them?

    Thanks a bunch.
     
  15. BendBound

    BendBound Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Bend, OR
    The FMP Smart White CD-Rs I have show made in the UAE, United Arab Emirates. A link to this particular product is in a post above.
     
  16. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    Looks like open-reel format is getting popular again. Perhaps this blank media can have a renaissance ...
     
  17. Grant

    Grant A Musical Free-Spirit

    Location:
    Arizona
    The price needs to come down.
     
  18. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    If multiple media manufacturers re-enter the market for open-reel tapes, it is clear the economy of scale will drive down prices ...
     
  19. BendBound

    BendBound Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Bend, OR
  20. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
  21. Dubmart

    Dubmart Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    Well I've just made what may be my last order for JVC/TYs, 500 DVD-Rs and 300 CD-Rs, if I come into some money I'll get some more, but it's already getting difficult to find the JVC branded discs in the UK and to be realistic this order will last me a long time, especially as I'm using less physical media and obviously I already use other brands for less critical things.
     
  22. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    While I still do not do downloads, it has been a while since I last made any recordings on CDR's ...
     
  23. daglesj

    daglesj Forum Resident

    Location:
    Norfolk, UK
    I bought a Toshiba 32GB USB3 stick for less than £5 today. Just saying.
     
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  24. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    This was a real bargain ... :righton:
     
  25. BendBound

    BendBound Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Bend, OR
    Finally, I've tested two alternatives to Taiyo Yuden WaterShield CD-Rs. The bottom line is that I believe I have discovered suitable replacements so that the panic I felt in December has subsided. Still, I acquired 600 TY WS CD-Rs on top of another 100 that I had in stock.

    The first option is Disc Makers Ultra HydroShield inkjet CD-R, their Item Number: CD-032-00008. These A-grade HydroShield professional discs feature a photo-realistic top print quality and silver bottom for a similar look to commercial CDs. In fact, Disc Makers employs TY WaterShield technology for the print top on this one. They printed up perfectly for me and at 49¢ a disc are cheaper than TY WS at 62¢ each.

    Disc Makers also make the Ultra HydroShield Diamond inkjet CD-R, Item Number: CD-032-00010. These cost 59¢ each if you purchase 100 at a time. These have the WaterShield top and the Falcon Professional Media Grade AAA dyes, for a look that is nearly identical to professional CDs. This option, which I have yet to try, is likely as close as one can get to a Taiyo Yuden Watershield CD-R.

    DM who sell Falcon Professional Media CD-Rs (among others) say this about the second option: "Falcon Professional Media is AAA rated in reliability and compatibility. Falcon media is Certified Swiss Quality, Falcon is a world-class manufacturer of optical recordable media." DUPLICATION.CA out of Canada says this about FPM's top options: "Diamond CD-Rs have a true silver bottom colour. They are virtually indistinguishable from replicated CDs. These discs were previously only available from poor quality manufacturers - but now you can have Falcon AAA-grade media to ensure your discs work perfectly on all compatible devices." The "poor quality manufacturers" noted here is an oblique reference to CMC that manufactured Memorex CD-Rs. BTW, CMC purchased the TY technology and expects to ship CD-Rs employing it by March or April.

    The second option I tested is Falcon Professional Media's Smart White 52x, 700MB CD-Rs, Item Number: CD-034-00002 (https://www.discmakers.com/shop/ItemDetails.aspx?ItemID=CD-034-00002). These middle of the FPM line CD-Rs are 31¢ each for a 100 order. They print edge to hub, with a flat or matte finish. Actually, they look really good and I think I may prefer these to the WaterShield finish in some applications. The bottom surface is a silver color, similar to commercial CDs.

    I was not able to test for read/write errors on either option, but both burned and played flawlessly in my home system, and in my two vehicles. Both look great on the print top.

    The FPM line includes the White Inkjet Full Coverage Diamond CD-R: ItemID=CD-034-00003 available from Disc Makers, at 37¢ each in a 100 pc. order. These employ their top of the line dyes for a Grade AAA CD-R. I have not used them yet. In theory, these CD-Rs have a better dye than the Smart White that I got.

    Note, all of these options are 700MB, 52x.

    If anyone else has a chance to use these options, please let us know what you think.
     
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