Taiyo Yuden To Stop Making Blank Media

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Dubmart, Jun 12, 2015.

  1. Jimi Bat

    Jimi Bat Forum Resident

    Location:
    tx usa
    Just curious have you ever compared MAM-A discs to any of the options you have listed above?
    I'm mainly interested in dvdrs but I need something archival quality and I'm still looking around.
     
  2. BendBound

    BendBound Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Bend, OR
    Yes, MAM-CD-Rs are excellent, exceptional in fact. I used them almost exclusively when my CD-R burner required audio media only. I had a Pioneer PDR-609. After experimenting with TDK, SONY, and Memorex, I discovered MAM were significantly better for my applications. However, these CD-Rs had a narrower print window (then) on top, that is not edge to hub per se. The MAMs had restricted the amount of print space on a disc for one, and second, they had only a matte finish, predominately (at the time) in matte silver. I wanted something that was closer to commercial CDs in look and finish, given that I performed a lot of vinyl to CD conversions, making mini-LPs on CD format.

    When I moved to an Alesis Masterlink ML-9600 recorder and later to a Tascam DV-RA1000HD, I began to use data discs. I quickly settled on Taiyo Yuden WaterShields CD-Rs as the best option for me. I've burned thousands of those and printed them up on an Epson PhotoStylus R340 and never had one fail.

    Certainly, MAM media is an option, one that I have not investigated fully. But if someone here has and thinks they are a better compared to Disc Makers or Falcon Media Professional options, you have my full attention.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2016
    Grant likes this.
  3. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    What are people still using these things for? Why does anybody care if they last or not?
     
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  4. Dubmart

    Dubmart Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    Well one simple reason is I can burn a CD-R and take it and play it pretty much anywhere there is some form of Hi-Fi, no need for a computer, even assuming said computer is connected in some way to a decent amp and speakers, CDs and by extension CD-Rs are the most ubiquitous Hi-Fi format there is and as the improvement in DACs has shown capable of very good sound. When it comes to DVD-Rs, likewise I can share and play them with ease although for me the main reason is I can use them to record and archive TV shows, sure I could do so with a computer, but DVD recorders are much easier and as I've been buying Panasonic recorders for around £10 a time it's very cheap even with media costs added in.
     
  5. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend

    Location:
    Texas
    These days, you'd have a tough time even finding a CD player hooked up to a HiFi, in a store or in a house. A more common scenario would be something with USB support, which means your phone is the most efficient way to take files on the go with the expectation to play music "anywhere". At least in the US.
     
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  6. Dubmart

    Dubmart Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    I'm middle aged, I don't have any music on my phone and I prefer quality over alleged convenience, I accept that for younger generations CDs are pretty much irrelevant, but as I have minimal interaction with young people I can inhabit a world where CD players are still relevant and everyone has one and where records are records NOT vinyls.:laugh:
     
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  7. RoyalScam

    RoyalScam Luckless Pedestrian

    I've stocked up on 200 DVD-R and 300 CD-R. That should last me quite a long time, at my current usage levels. I'm sure by the time I need to acquire more, we'll have somewhat of a consensus on an appropriate alternative. Or they simply won't exist anymore. :winkgrin:
     
  8. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    :agree: I do not have a single track of music on my phone even though it has 32 GB of storage. My phone is only for phone calls, text messages and an occasional pictures or two. I can do without music while traveling ...
     
  9. BendBound

    BendBound Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Bend, OR
    I'm kinda in this category too. I have no iPod or music on my iPhone. I listen mostly to vinyl, obviously at home, but I have an extensive CD collection too since some titles I want to listen to are either too expensive as vinyl or not otherwise available in that format. But the big thing is that being retired now, my wife and I do a lot of traveling in a camper and during the summer for months at a time, frequently for up to four months without coming home. So I like to take many hundreds of CDs to listen to during that sojourn.

    In the late 1990s, I purchased a Pioneer PDR-609, to convert some of my favorite vinyl records to CDs. At that time, my vinyl collection was maybe 3,000 to 4,000, and I did not feel like repurchasing the music again in CD. So I began to convert parts of my collection for listening in the car on my commute to work. That led me to better equipment, specifically in a turntable, cartridge and phono preamp, to get better dubs. In turn, that caused me to figure out what media to use and how to best process the music. I use ClickRepair for example and Triumph software, along with Audacity. I create a dub that has named separate tracks.

    Along the way, I moved up to a pro recorder in the Tascam DV-RA1000HD, modified by Jim Williams of Audio Upgrades to squeeze even more from my dubs. That also permitted me to get away from audio or music only CD-Rs.

    When Taiyo Yuden introduced WaterShield CD-Rs, I was in heaven. I began to experiment with making mini-LP CD-Rs, similar to the CDs in that format the Japanese were doing. Specifically, I wanted to get away from jewel cases of hard plastic. I secured a used very large platen bed Epson scanner to duplicate an entire album cover at once and discovered what paper to print it on via Photoshop to get a great looking mini-LP cover. Then I settled on a 5"x5" paperboard sleeve that from my template I could create a paste over with the album art on it, using 3M spray glue. These I line with a poly sleeve, glued in also to protect the dub.

    Finally, with printable Watershield CD-Rs I began to recreate the record label too, sometimes from scans that are retouched in Photoshop, sometimes building them from scratch. Now I can create a mini-LP from my vinyl to a CD that looks nearly identical to the original record and with sound that is fantastic. Some friends have asked me to replicate their favorite lps that are not available on CD. They love the final product, and marvel at the sound which on their system doing an A-B test most often bests their vinyl playback. That is due to the better front end I have compared to theirs. Interestingly, well-done dubs sound more musical than the commercial CD of the same lp.

    Anyway, this has become a hobby of mine. Just yesterday, I made mini-LPs of the three EPs-lps from mid-1980's Pasadena group the New Marines. I particularly love their second EP Diving For Pearls. Last week, I dubbed the only lp by A Drop In The Gray, Certain Sculptures. Mostly, I dub Blue Note and Prestige titles, since I love jazz. But recently, I made a mini-LP of Bela Bartok's Concerto For Orchestra, Antal Dorati conducting the Minneapolis Symphony Orchestra on the Mercury label. If I knew how, I would post a photo of my finished product. But the way I finish them now, they look precisely like a record album only 5"x5" in size.
     
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  10. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    But then why care about the quality of the CD-R? If there's a problem, just reburn (which takes a couple of minutes these days). They're disposable.
     
  11. Dubmart

    Dubmart Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    Let's see, really bad CD-Rs may not burn properly at all, a TY disc will last for years and never need me to reburn which may well require a lot of effort to locate material on archived drives, likewise a good disc is more durable meaning that if I choose to abuse it I don't have to worry about it failing, good discs cost only a few pennies more so there's no real financial benefit in buying cheap discs, I have CD-Rs I burned in the 1990s that still play perfectly, that's a sense of security I like.

    When it comes to DVD apart from recording TV shows I still use DVD-Rs as a backup for photos, video and data, they are more stable than disc drives, USB drives and memory cards, flexible and easy to store off site, I also use multiple drives, but DVD-Rs give me a belt and braces option, disc quality is even more important in an archival context.
     
  12. Grant

    Grant A Musical Free-Spirit

    Location:
    Arizona
    Means nothing! There are lots of middle-aged people who download, stream, play music from their smartphones, and don't mess with CD anymore.
     
  13. Dubmart

    Dubmart Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    I know how to stream, download and play music from my phone, I've tried them all, but I prefer physical media and a phone that is just for phone calls, texting and an occasional photo or web search, being middle-aged I am aware of what we've lost with technological progress and I've chosen earlier technology, just as I prefer vinyl records and still occasianlly play cassettes, 1/4 " reels, DAT tapes and VHS, I also love books and found the Kindle to be a rather unpleasant experience, basically I miss a lot about the twentieth century and just because things are new doesn't make them better.
     
  14. quicksrt

    quicksrt Forum Resident

    Location:
    City of Angels
    I was so with you on discs and why they are important and useful. And then you had to state that it is difficult to locate archived data on drives which is such B.S. Unless one is a complete scatterbrained and just can't get organized. It's not an either or situation. All discs should be backed up on drives as well, and organized in such a way that finding an album or video folder with the files should be a cinch. Music > Rock > Rolling Stones > and that should be about all it takes to get anything up in 6 seconds tops.
     
  15. Dubmart

    Dubmart Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    No, I actually meant retrieving the physical drive from it's storage location and plugging it in rather than just finding the correct folder, I have a lot of drives, many, many Terabytes including backups of backups, but the only drives I have to hand are those in current use, recent files and anything I've had to pull out for work, I don't store my drives in the same locations, I tend to treat them in the same way I treat master tapes, keep them safe, secure and in proper conditions, but not to hand, the only difference with drives is that I try and fire them up once or twice a year to keep them working. Life will be so much simpler and better when we have some new form of storage that is guaranteed for at least 100 years, fast and can handle huge amounts of data at little cost, then I could have everything at my finger tips. If I want to hear the Rolling Stones it is easy, LP shelf or CD shelf, Rock, Rolling Stones, select album.:)

    I'd just add that because I don't stream I don't actually need drives with music to hand.
     
  16. BendBound

    BendBound Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Bend, OR
    http://www.mam-a-store.com/mam43181-100.html

    This option is what I would use from MAM. These are about 36¢ a piece, purchasing 100 at a time. These are edge to hub printable, a plus. But I am almost positive these have a matte finish. I prefer the glossy finish of TY WS or some of the options noted above from Disc Makers and Falcon Professional Media.

    As noted earlier in this thread, I used MAM audio or music CD-Rs, still have a handful in fact. But with a pro recorder, data CD-Rs are the media of choice. I don't need to pay royalties on theoretical 'lost sales' to the music conglomerates when I already own the music and legally I can record a dub for my own use in other formats.

    However, these discs are Grade AAA. Has anyone used them who cares to comment?
     
  17. OnTheRoad

    OnTheRoad Forum Resident

    Can't say I'm beyond it...but...

    This statement reeks of elitism, if not ignorance.

    No explanation is even needed.
     
  18. Grant

    Grant A Musical Free-Spirit

    Location:
    Arizona
    It just annoys me when people blame everything on age. because as soon as you do that, I can find tons of people who don't fit the stereotype.
     
  19. Dubmart

    Dubmart Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    I don't feel old, it's just everything has changed incredibly rapidly and although I've embraced many of those changes I am still someone who was born in and shaped by the twentieth century, I therefore choose to avoid social media, hugging and kissing instead of a handshake, downloading except for work, streaming media and many other things whilst embracing things like digital photography, the internet and some online shopping. Returning to what this thread is about the ever increasing spread at which technology becomes obsolete and the ever shorter product lifespans is something else I find annoying, I can still find cassettes and VHS tapes, if I had an urge to use them, but with little choice and at greater cost, I just don't want CD-Rs and DVD-Rs to go that way, or at least so quickly, even though I actually have devices whose capabilities are beyond those technologies even though I can burn HD footage to DVD and record DSD to DVD as well, with limitations, I just want the choices I once had.
     
    ben_wood likes this.
  20. BendBound

    BendBound Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Bend, OR
    Got an email today from Media Supply. It said the following:

    Here's the scoop on JVC/Taiyo Yuden's announcement regarding CD-R & DVD-R. Big changes are in the works for JVC/Taiyo Yuden users over the next couple months. Here's the story on what is happening:

    In June of 2015, JVC announced they would no longer be manufacturing high-quality Taiyo Yuden engineered DVDs & CDs as of 12/31/15. This is based on their Philips license expiring. In November, CMC announced they would be buying the Taiyo Yuden technology, and begin making media using Taiyo Yuden dye and procedures in their Taiwan plants. This new product will become available in late February or early March. We have a limited supply of product made in Japan by JVC available during this transition.
    The latest on this new product is that it's still in testing, but it's expected to be available in the next 45 days.

    So, you're probably wondering what our plan is at Media Supply. With some manufacturers leaving the business, and others selling their names or technology to other (sometimes less reputable) manufacturers, we wanted the ability to offer our customers a line of premium, high-quality discs that they could depend on, that wouldn't be affected by changes in the industry. Below you'll find information on our new MediaPro Premium blank media. If you have questions about this Taiyo Yuden change, contact us via email or call for more info.

    Media Supply has developed MediaPro Premium using premium AZO dye technology and premium print surfaces. They're designed to be discs you can depend on, and will be equal in quality to the JVC/Taiyo Yuden. We have MediaPro Premium in stock, and it's available in multiple configurations:

    Silver Laquer 80m CD-R
    White Inkjet Hub Printable 80m CD-R
    White Thermal Hub Printable 80m CD-R
    White Inkjet Hub Printable 16x 4.7GB DVD-R
    White Thermal Hub Printable 16x 4.7GB DVD-R
    Silver Lacquer 16x 4.7GB DVD-R

    We've also aggressively priced MediaPro Premium, a premium product, so it's less expensive than our standard JVC/Taiyo Yuden pricing.

    Message from Frank...

    We've spent the last 7 months developing our new MediaPro Premium as a safe haven for our customers. When we found we could have the product made with the top-shelf integrity of the AZO dye, we knew this would make transition from the Taiyo blue/green dye that much easier for our customers. The bottom line for Media Supply is that we're in for the long haul in this marketplace, and we'll continue to adapt to make sure the best products are available for our discerning customers.

    End of message.

    So there you have it folks, lots of options to evaluate, some from Media Supply, some from Disc Makers, some from Falcon Professional Media. I've tested and reported here on options from Disc Makers and Falcon Professional Media.

    I'd be interested in the views of others on the Media Supply options and on the CD-Rs I've tested from the last two manufacturers.
     
    Jimi Bat likes this.
  21. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    The quality should hold up as Taiwan has been known to make quality high-tech products for some times now ...
     
  22. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    :righton: :agree: Just add open-reel tapes to that list you made and I pretty much share your experience. I only bought my first tablet computer a week ago. I went for the Android since I got a much better deal for the money than sticking with Windows 10. My smartphone continues to be a phone, texting device and for occasional web surfing only.
     
  23. Gaslight

    Gaslight Cave dwelller

    Location:
    Northeast USA
    I think his point was that being middle-aged really has nothing to do with your media preferences.

    I poked into the thread again as I used to be a huge CDR and later DVDR buyer. I still have perhaps a few dozen of my last batch of TY's still unused because after I moved to HDD's there was simply no need for these anymore, in bulk.

    I'll still burn the occasional DVDR from an ISO image, or perhaps for old-school file sharing. But even that is almost nil given cheap thumb drives these days.
     
  24. Jimi Bat

    Jimi Bat Forum Resident

    Location:
    tx usa
    I notice there are no DVD+R on the above list from Media Supply.
    I also noticed a lot less options for DVD+R when I was at the MAM-A site last week.
    Anyone know what's up with this?
    I thought + was easier for the recorders to play back than - but I don't know that much about it.
    Thanks for the update BendBound.
    I buy all my media from Media Supply but I did not get this email.
     
  25. daglesj

    daglesj Forum Resident

    Location:
    Norfolk, UK
    When I bought my new car two years ago the most exciting feature on the whole damn car was...the USB port!

    One 64GB Micro USB stick and done! Not a CD to be seen, thank goodness.
     

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