Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Dubmart, Jun 12, 2015.
For several years now the main DVD media has been -R, at least when I've been looking to buy.
Our prayers are answered, proper long term storage is coming.
'Five-dimensional' glass discs can store data for up to 13.8 billion years »
Thank goodness! Now Justin Bieber's dross is forever...
Make it N-dimensional ...
Til then, the M-Disc will have to do!
Yes unfortunately, the devices used to read them will be obsolete and abandoned by 2025.
But 2025 is too far away for some of us ...
Got another update email from Media Supply, as follows:
Updating you on current JVC/Taiyo delivery and transition issues. The end of March is here. The JVC/Taiyo inventory in the US is becoming hard to find, and the new CMC/Taiyo is starting to show up on our shores. Here's the latest on the transition, keeping you updated on out of stock products:
No supply available:
JCDR-WPT-SK (White Thermal CDR for Rimage Everest) -
Click for MP Premium Alternative
Click for Rimage Alternative
JDMR-WPT-SK16 (White Thermal DVD For Rimage Everest)
Click for MP Premium Alternative
Click for Rimage Alternative
JCDR-SPT-SK (Silver Thermal for Rimage Everest) - Call for alternatives
JDMR-WPP-SB16-WS2 (Print Plus Watershield) - Click for Falcon Alternative
JCDR-VALZZ-SK (Value Line CD-R) - Click for MP Premium Alternative
JDMR-HIGLOSSW-SK16 (High Gloss 16X DVD White Inkjet) - Click for Falcon Alternative
Limited supply available:
JCDR-WPP-SB-WS1 Watershield White Inkjet - Click for Falcon Alternative
JCDR-VALWPP-SK (Value White Inkjet CDR) - Click for MP Premium Alternative
JDMR-VALWPPSK16 (Value White Inkjet 16x DVD) - Click for MP Premium Alternative
JDMR-VALZPP-SK16 (Value Silver Lacquer 16x DVD) - Click for MP Premium Alternative
We'll continue to keep you in the loop on stock changes on standard JVC/Taiyo. We don't expect to see the CMC Taiwan product until the beginning of April, so you may need to plan to use alternatives in the the mean time, or move to our new MediaPro Premium blank media. If you have questions about this Taiyo Yuden change, contact us via email or call 1-800-944-4237 for more info.
I just took receipt of the last "cakebox" of TY CD-Rs I will ever buy. At this point, the only CDs I burn are party discs for friends, and not many of those. Well into a server setup, the timing is good for me, but it's gotta suck for those who continue to rely on optical discs. Hope a reliable replacement shows up.
Otherwise, get em while they're hot. Media Supply has proven to be an excellent vendor here.
I just placed order of the last "cakebox" of TY CD-Rs & DVD-Rs I will ever buy. Super Media Store has what I'd consider great prices and swift delivery. I almost just ordered a 50 pack or each, but at the last minute I selected the 100 pack of each.
I wanted to have these last me the rest of my life, and I think I am now set. Kinda sad, but kind of great too. The discs I burned previously held me over to the HDD / Server era quite well. And these new ones I have coming will be for burns I give away like Christmas comps, and various artists comps I like to do and share.
Bye-bye TY if was an amazing 15 year relationship, and if my previous burns hold out, we can shoot for another 25 years of music data storage together.
Hearing the name Taiyo Yuden really brings me back to my days of trading Phish shows before ubiquitous broadband made the whole process seem rather silly.
I produce recordings for community events. I switched to TY years ago after other brands started to get CD rot after two years. CMC was among the worst. I'm less worried about bad burns as I am about disks going bad a few years down the road. The TY disks supposedly lasted 100 years due to organic dyes. I'm currently doing a run of 200 CD's in my Primeera using my first CMC Watershield disks. As of disk 132 I've already had EIGHT rejected by the duplicator mid burn. I appreciate the information above and hope everyone will report their findings. I did, however, find TY stock today in their pearl silver finish that I prefer to use, so the next batch should be better, but that's just a temporary solution I know!
I'm already on record in this thread with an opinion on these CD's, but that seems like a lot of frisbees. My recollection is that you have to burn these at a lower speed than normal CD's. The spool of MAM-A's I have on my desk suggests speeds of 8X and under.
A question to the CD-R experts:
Which brand offers the most reliable CD-Rs for longterm storage (50 years might be all that I need)
at the moment? Any experience with Verbatim?
And what about Flash drives (USB sticks or SD Cards)? Won't they last really long if one
simply writes data to a USB flash drive only once and then just uses it for listening to the content (music),
which means no writing or erasing?
The only way to guarantee data survival and playback 50 years down the road is to use multiple formats, multiple copies and use the most open encoding, checking and backing up on a regular basis.
My earliest CD-Rs are coming up to 20 years old and still play fine, so I'd be confident that a good CD-R properly stored will last 20-25 years at the very least, Verbatim are okay though I'd try and avoid the Indian made ones and find Taiwanese, if you search there are still TYs around often under different brand names, second choice would be anything made in Japan.
Sticks and cards won't last 50 years, I forget the details, but something to do with the electrical charge, that's assuming your device in 2067 will have either a SD or USB port, I suspect that CD drives may be scarce, but still around for specialist use.
If you are talking music and want to guarantee playback get it cut onto vinyl, guaranteed to exceed your 50 years.
I would just use whatever is out there. CD-R doesn't last forever.
If you are achieving, you are better off backing up to hard drives. CD-R just isn't reliable, which is just one of the reasons it is fading into history. Sure, there are people with CD-R and DVD discs that are 25 years old that may play flawlessly, but I guarantee that they are chock full of CR2 errors. Backing up to CD-R is a gamble. One day it will play, the next, not.
There is the M-disc that claims to last something like 100 years. They are expensive, and I doubt hardly anyone will be around in 100 years to witness the veracity of the claims.
Spinning hard drives can and do fail, but they are still the most proven digital storage available to we mortals.
I don't think so Grant. The TYs that I have ripped back to my desktop to do click repair on (CR was not available at time of original needledrop session), kind of purr reight through smoothly and perfectly. And they sound absolutely fine. Why should I expect CR2 errors when things went so fine during original burn, and also during recovery 15 years later on known HQ Japanese discs?
CMC out of Taiwan I believe was not a reliable CD-R manufacturer. Taiyo Yuden WaterShield were touted to be archival quality, but a year or so, they got out of the CD-R business. CMC purchased the TY technology, dyes, standards, materials, the entire shooting match. The CMC TY CD-Rs are widely available. I have not used them. When TY announced the end, I purchased 500 CD-Rs, enough to last me years burning vinyl to CD.
The TY WaterShield CD-Rs are available from Disc Makers, NOS. See this link: JVC Advanced Silver Watershield 52x CD-R .
Disc Makers also produces the Ultra Hydroshield 52x 700MB CD-R. I've been using theses also for the last year and I think they are terrific. Disc Makers Ultra A-grade Hydroshield are professional discs that were developed with state-of-the-art JVC WaterShield technology. JVC was how TY CD-Rs were marketed in their last few years. These CD-Rs feature a hi-def, glossy, smudge-resistant printable surface that deliver a phenomenal printed disc. All Ultra discs now set industry standards for compatibility, speed, and playback. I have not been able to find out the longevity of these CD-Rs but I do read the word archival periodically in reference to them.
DM also offers a professional media line. They have this to say: "We know that JVC users expect the industry’s highest quality and lowest disc reject rate which is why Disc Makers recommends FalconMedia, the industry’s most reliable and highest quality blank optical media. Made under exacting Swiss quality standards by Falcon Technlogies, Inc., Falcon is the highest quality optical media manufacturer in the world, and FalconMedia is the top media brand." In that line, they offer an archival gold CD-R for $1.95 per if you purchase 1oo, but I was not able to see how long they guaranteed media life.
DM has a premium line, at a lower price that the two above. I've used these too with a matte finish, and for what I am doing, they are terrific. They say this about them: "Disc Makers Premium brand CD-Rs are hand picked from the world's finest, licensed media manufacturers and every lot we receive is put through our rigorous 16-step incoming inspection process ensuring you the best possible price to performance ratio. Premium CD-Rs are aggressively priced yet hold up to the standards today's high-speed burners require."
It is time consuming to burn vinyl to CD, at least the way I do it. Besides cleaning the lp, I burn at 96/24 from turntable-phono preamp-Tascam pro recorder, lightly process with ClickRepair, parse and some processing in either Audacity or Triumph, dither down to Red Book and burn to CD-R. I make mini-lp CDs, complete with lp cover artwork and label artwork printed on the CD-R with an Epson R340 printer.
I save the 96/24 original files on two separate hard drives, both Lacie Porsche Design 4 TB desktop drives.
You want media that's guaranteed to last 50 years? So far, this the the only proven way.
Vinyl revenue will top $1 billion this year while sales of CDs and digital downloads tumble ...
And, again: there are no guarantees. There is M-Disc, but it is expensive, and not conducive to your needs.
Flash drives/SD cards are not reliable or long lasting. They can fail at any time, and the data on them can easily become corrupt.
In short: you are not going to get the answer you want.
Tape - massive storage capacity and long lasting ...
Forgot to mention MAM CD-Rs. Don't use them anymore but they have archival CD-Rs.
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