Talk to me about Audio Note AN-E speakers please

I'm looking at it this way; I've been informed by several very knowledgeable audiophiles that if I want to improve on what I hear from the M30.1s, particularly with a lower-powered AN UK tube amp, then the AN-E is the way to go (synergy, dynamics, timbre, speed, detail, etc.).
Also, I feel lucky that I will be able test the M30.1s and the AN-Es side-by-side with an Oto SE.
If I can also try the O/93s, well that would be something indeed.

 

I'm not a fan of the o/96 (never heard the o/93 though). I felt the bass was too loose for my tastes and I prefer a more holographic presentation, but thought the o/96 was more of a 2D coming at you sort of sound. I have read a comparison of the Harbeth P3ESRs against the Devore Super 8 and the owner said something like "the P3ESRs not only killed the Super 8s, they shouted everywhere that DeVore Super 8's are a lie." Strong words, but from a guy who owns both speakers. I mentioned this somewhere else, but he actually uses the Super 8's as expensive speaker stands for his P3ESRs.

He also runs 70 watt Shindo mono blocks with a pair of Harbeth 40.1 and with the same 40.1s he also uses vintage McIntosh MC225's and has mentioned to me on a few occasions that his Mac amps are better than the Shindos in just about every catagory except for dB/volume where the extra watts help. In fact, he ran a thread on the Harbeth forums about using his little 25 watt'r Mac amp and Alan Shaw closed his thread down because he didn't agree that 25 amps was enough ... luckily Shaw makes good speakers to make up for his personality ... or maybe he was just having a bad day because Shaw was coming off a bit like a pompous a$$hole.

So IMO after living with Harbeth you would be better off looking at the AN speaker line if they are voiced similar to Harbeth ... or a more powerful amp something like the Decware Zen Mystery Amp or even even a pair of vintage MC225s ...

 

John Atkinson directly compared the Harbeth M40.1s against the AN-E/Spe HEs and came away preferring the AN-Es.
IMHO, having extensively heard both the M30.1s and 40.1s (and owning the 30.1s), if the AN-Es are being put up against the big Harbeths and walking away, well, I'm prepared to be very effing impressed.

 

I read that review a while ago, thanks for refreshing my memory. After living with the Harbeth and since the AN sound has Harbeth qualities I think they would be more compatible with your listening preferences than a Devore O/96 loudspeaker.

On another recommendation ~ I don't know if you've ever heard an Omega AlNiCo Hemp Cone, but they have compared favorably to Harbeth as well and there are some owners who have traded their Harbeth models in for the Omega line. There is a current post on the Omega forum where somebody mentioned his AlNiCo Omegas outlasted a pair of Harbeth P3ESRs and he gives a few reasons why he went that way (there are a few others who have went this route as well and you can find their posts scattered about). But in that particular post his reasons came down to better imaging and the fact that Omegas can be driven with only 2 watts so they open up almost any type of amp possibility. The owner mentioned in my previous post above (who gave the Devore/Harbeth comparison) likes to call the P3ESR the "Bitch" ... because it kills every other speaker you put next to her. So, considering the Omega compared favorably to the Harbeth that is saying a lot IMO.

Also with any Omega, the first watt theory applies in spades, since there is no crossover. So that first watt goes into driving the speaker without getting stepped on with caps/crossovers. And since there is no crossover they are less expensive than other designs that have all these extotic caps and parts, etc., but I have no doubt that the AlNiCo Hemp Cone driver used in the Super AlNiCo XRS or Monitor is just as good as the AN (and possibly better considering it needs to do its thing without any additional help from a crossover or other parts in the way).

If you did want to go a little more exotic you coud even wire them internally with whatever AN wire you wanted to use, heck since they are custom made ~ you could even bypass the binding posts altogether (which would get rid of another connection point) and wire them directly from the driver, out of the cabinet and into your Oto integrated (these would be mind blowingly fast if you did it like that). At 93dB and 8 Ohms, the 10 watt AN integrated will make those sing and you will have more volume and deeper bass than both the Harbeth and AN, plus you don't have the placement issues associated with the AN (not that its a major problem), but you will get good, fast, tight bass with easier placement using the XRS or Monitor. Not to mention you would save a $hit load of money.

I know they don't have the exoticness of the AN or pedigree of the Harbeth (or cost), but they are worth a listen if you can find anybody who has a pair of the AlNiCo XRS hemp cones. And from the feedback I have gotten from people who have owned both Harbeth and Omega, they are a speaker that comes close to Harbeth performance and soundwise (which is one of the main reasons I'm bringing up the Omegas in the first place), but way easier to drive.

 

Just to balance things out, I owned the Harbeth Compact 7s for a while before moving on to the DeVore 3XLs. To me, the DeVore's were better in almost every way. Other than really small, acoustic music, which really shined on the Harbeths, there was nothing the DeVore's didn't do better. I've since moved on to the O/93s which now do everything I've wanted in a speaker.

This just shows how much people's taste dictates what they recommend. I suggest trying to hear as many speakers as possible before taking the plunge. It just seems like you may have already "purchased" the AN's without even hearing them. It's a lot of money to just take a leap of faith on.

 

I think that perhaps Raferx has his heart set on eventually assembling an all Audio Note system - it should be great provided the AN speakers can be properly (corner) positioned in his room.
If it was me I would be first wanting to hear his Harbeths with a really top of the line SS amplifier (that can effortlessly drive the relatively low efficiency Harbeths) and then comparing the sound with his preferred Audio Note speaker and Oto combination before I made a purchasing decision.

 

There is something to be said about system synergy, especially from the Audio Notes, Linns, Naims, etc. Especially if you are listening to a certain type of music. I don't disagree with you, but I want back to solid state after living with tubes for three years. I miss some things, but all around I made the choice that served what I listened to the best.

 

Interesting. I never liked the Compact 7s compared to any other Harbeth.
I've listened to many, many speakers before initially deciding on the P3ESR, and from there went to the M30.1s, and again... I'll reiterate, if the AN-Es don't best the M30.1s, I'm not getting them.
But what I am doing, is following the advice of those more senior audiophiles that have suggested to me that if I love the M30.1s, then the AN-E is a step further in the right direction, especially with a tube amp.
If I can demo O/93s against the AN-Es and M30.1s, and they are better in IMHO, then I would go with DeVore.

 

For the record, I've listened to many SS amps with the Harbeths, in the $1,500 to $4,500 range and from 30 watts to 125 watts.
The best I heard was the Sugden A21SE which the AN UK Oto SE beat hands-down in a head-to-head demo.
I've been down the SS road. Not interested. Tubes are where it's at as far as I am concerned. And again, power to the SS people... just not for me.

 

To be honest, I have no interest in an "all Audio Note system." I want great sound. Period.
I don't want an AN UK turntable or cartridge, I'm happy with my modded Rega RP6 for now, but the next step will be a Garrard 301 and Thomas Schick tonearm with an Ortofon SPU or similar cartridge.
And again, AN speakers do not need to be corner positioned per se. Just ask our host.

 

You never know - I bet you never thought you would be contemplating getting rid of the Harbeths so quickly when you chose the Oto.
The Oto should be perfect for the AN speakers that you are now considering and you will have the tube sound that you are looking for.
I think Steve used some acoustic panels behind one of his AN speakers that wasn't in a corner position.

 

Yeah I kind of sensed that you had already done that.
I suppose if you have low efficiency speakers then you really don't have much choice other than SS amplification if you want the speakers to perform optimally for all types of music.

 

I am also consider the AN speakers, but am leaning towards Omegas. I didn't want to hijack rafer's thread so I started a separate one, but if anyone is interested in discussing, the thread is here: http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/seriously-considering-omega-super-alnico-xrs-speakers.389771/

 

I wouldn't say that, plenty of higher-powered tube options out there. The McIntosh MC2301 (300 watts) is the first one that springs to mind.

 

Nice - only $22,000 a pair. That would get you a fair slab of AN equipment.

 

Ha!
A bargain
That's mid-level AN UK mono block territory.
Too rich for my blood, but in all honesty, there's plenty of tube amp choices in the 30-100 watt range for considerably less. PrimaLuna, the MC 275, Line Magnetic, Rogue Audio, Croft, Luxman and Leben to name a few.

 

I'll say that a simple crossover or none at all can take you closer to the music. There are tradeoffs, but a good cabinet can do some of the job of the crossover. Making best use of that first good watt and not spending it in a complex circuit has its appeal.

 

Who can comment on the sound of a crossover-less design like the Omega vs the AN-E or the DeVore's?

 

I made a comment in the new thread. Omega speakers are OK for the money, especially if you like that raw and direct kind of sound. I don't think they really compare to Audio Note though. But they are not even in the same price range so why should they?

I'll say that it all looks good on paper. The proof is in the listening.

 

While its true that older based lowther and fostex speakers have been known to be shouty in certain frequency ranges, I don't agree with your assessment that Omega's sound "Raw". The new drivers that Louis has desiged (such as the AlNiCo Hemp, RS5 and RS7 models) have engineered those issues out and are excellent, refined and smooth throughout the entire frequency ranges.

The AlNiCo Hemp are especially great with jazz and acoustic, but good with slower paced classic rock as well. The Ferrite models (RS5/RS7) are fast and more dynamic, they start and stop more quickly and thus are better with hard rock and faster paced/beat music IMO and actually my preferred driver due to my musical preferences. As far as being "Direct" , if you are meaning fast and the sound is uncolored (aka not being stepped on by a crossover) and thus more akin to producing a sound more natural to what is coming from your downline components, then yes ... but unpolitely in your face = not at all.

IMO, the closest you can get to the music and what your downline components are producing is to eliminate the crossover .. not matter how you bake them or how exotic and expensive your caps and wires are ~ they are still coloring the tone.

The Omega Super AlNiCo's XRS are an excellent product, not just for the money, but an excellent all around speaker and user feedback from actual owners of both Harbeth and Omega would put them on the same level as Harbeth and even better in some respects. I've never heard the AN's and I'm sure they are great as well so it will come down to personal preferences of course, but the Omega's for sure will be:

1. More easier to drive = 93dB @ 8ohms (with no crossover so first watt theory applies).
2. Produce deeper bass with easier placement = bottom ported so placement against the wall or out into the room (take your pick).
3. More coherent = Undoubtedly (aside from flat panels) single drivers are the most coherent speakers being produced.
4. Uncolored music = no crossover coloring any part of the signal, what you get from your downline components is what comes out at the driver end, so a solid foundation is a must IMO.

 

Every design involves tradeoffs, and full range has its particular set of compromises--cannot play as loud as multiways, deep bass is limited, high frequency dispersion is narrow, and yes, the sound can be characterised as rough or "raw" (that same quality can be characterized as immediate and lively, so it is a matter of taste to some degree). In recent years the "bad" qualities have been tamed in a number of designs. I particularly like the Feastrix field-coil full range driver, but, that driver is insanely expensive. The limitations of such drivers show up particularly with large scale orchestral and choral music.

My own preference is for fullrange drivers used in multi-way systems where the crossover point is pushed well away from the midrange, or where the fullrange driver is run full range (rolled off acoustically, and not electrically) with other drivers augmenting the sound. I heard, and liked, a system with a field-coil Lowther that covered from 100 hz on up. One of the very best systems I heard had a Western Electric 555 driver and a Western Electric 15A horn that was running crossoverless, with a tweeter that came in around 8,000 hz, and a woofer that came in around 100 hz; this thing was, however, so big it was like having two Smart Cars standing on their back bumpers in the room.

 

Rafe,

I know a local Washington DC dealer (Deja Vu Audio) that has one of those 16A horns shown in your picture. That is just one channel (even though it is hooked up to two compression drivers and can even be hooked up to four drivers), and only the midrange at that. Some people run these full range and don't bother to add woofers, though they really do need a woofer and a tweeter for optimal performance. The 16A is quite intesting--when the music stops, you can hear that big metallic structure continue to ring (quite long echo effect) quite prominently. The sound is colored by that ringing, but, it still remains quite musical sounding.

This same dealer has a stereo 15A setup (the midrange horn is smaller than the 16A, but, with its woofers it is bigger in size overall), and is a retailer for Audionote gear. This dealer even has the three motor Audionote turntable that comes with three massive power supplies for each motor and a separate motor control box. This dealer also had the very bulky M-10 phonostage and M-10 linestage (both come with multiple boxes for power supplies). I think you would like this store.

 

I bought my first tube amp from Deja Vu Audio. Excellent people.

 

Sounds like heaven! Wish I could come hear those big WE horns and that TT-3!!! I'll check out their website, thanks Larry!