Hi, For the 2 people other than me who care .... Recently I did an a/b (a/b/c actually) compare of Tangerine Dream's Green Desert. While doing so I really noticed some pops on the Jive/Electro. Which makes me think it's a needle-drop. Any one have any info? Anyhow since I did the compares, here are some brief notes: Jive/Electro - C Tang 1 - 1986 1st pressing On the title track I hear a bunch of pops. Sounds like a very good needle-drop but a needle-drop nonetheless. Still, the overall the sound is nice. Seems have little hiss. Relativity - EMCD 8072 - "Nimbus England" - 1986 1st pressing No Pops. Some Hiss. Makes me think that this was mastered from an analogue tape source (master? safety?) and not a possible needle-drop like the Jive/Electro. Has a very nice sound, better mid's high end than Jive Electro. A smooth, easy listen. I know some of the TD Relativity's are not highly thought of, but this is a good one. This is now the pressing/mastering, I'll reach for, better artwork too. Castle - CMA CD 567 - 2000 Remaster. Which as I understand is the same as the 1996 remaster? No Pops. Lacks hiss, not sure if NR was used or if it was from higher gen or master tape. Not bad for a modern mastering, but some Digital Compression has been used. Very noticeable to me on the 2nd track, White Clouds. Tangerine Dream's sound is "electronic" enough, so to my ears Digital Compression quickly made it a fatiguing listen even as "ambient music", I won't be spinning this pressing again. Rick P.S. Just why on earth did I spend 2 hours listening to 3 pressings of Green Desert? Why do I even own 3 versions. I must be an idiot. To prove that point I'll do either Exit or Le Parc next. LMK in this thread, if you'd like me to post my results.
I have just made a similar shootout between the Jive version and the Relativity version of Zeit. My findings are very similar to yours. The Relativity has more hiss but the music shines through making it somewhat clearer than the Jive version. It almost sounds like the Jive version has some sort of noise reduction applied. The more I listen the more I like the Relativity version. When it comes to Zeit this is a very good thing because the Relativity a 2CD including the full version of the album. The Jive version has the title track shorted by 2.5 minutes making it fit on a single CD. And please post all your findings regarding listening tests. I find it very helpful.
Well, I'm the second one to respond so that's your 2 other people right now. Green Desert is one I don't have. I'd like to hear your take on Le Parc. I have the original Relativity LP as issued in the U.S., and the original Jive/Electro Relativity W. German made CD. I know there are more recent remasterings of this one, but I think what I have sounds pretty nice. For Exit, all I have is the same original U.S. CD on Electra that's been available for years.
Speaking of things not making it on a single CD... Isn't the Relativity "Mastered by Nimbus" Poland 2CD the only non-remastered version that contains Tangent? I'll post my next results to this thread. Rick
. Actually I thought 2 would even be a stretch. Funny thing, I never considered myself anything more than a casual TD fan, then I counted up my TD CD's recently and if you included the Risky Business soundtrack I have 25 of their albums. Not to mention multiple CD versions for several of them. Guess it makes me a "real" fan? For Le Parc, I have the original Relativity and the 1996/2000 remaster. I have a line on the Jive/Electro but I'm not sure it will work out. Which is why I'm leaning on doing Exit first. On Exit, I have the original Virgin, the US Elektra and the Europe only Virgin Definitive Edition. As for the rest of the TD catalog the only other albums for which I have multiple CD versions are; Statosfear, Poland, White Eagle and Hyperborea. For each of them I have 1 "original" and 1 re-master. When I do additional compares, should I use this thread or start another? If this one maybe I can have a mod change the title to Tangerine Dream all purpose thread, or something like that. Rick
OK the deal went through. Hopefully I'll receive it during the week and will be able to do an A/B/C compare next weekend of the 3 Le Parc CD's. Rick
I don't see how it could be a needle drop, because the Jive/Electro release of Green Desert actually is the original release. The early 70s recordings were remixed in 1984 (thus the prevalence of early 80s sounds on it) and it was put out on Relativity as part of a box set titled In The Beginning... with their Ohr-era albums. Soon after, the albums were released individually (on CD only, I think) in the UK on Jive with the "pyramid" covers. The tapes were remixed in 1984 for this release (note the presence of some early 80s sounds). The original recording has never been put out in any form, not even bootlegs AFAIK.
BTW, the Definitive Edition(s) also came out in Canada. It's still available, although copies are no longer made locally but now shipped in from Europe.
I'd say your avatar answers that question, does it not? I've only ever had the old US Relativity release and have been happy with it sound-wise. As for the album itself, as I mentioned in another thread, I'd love to hear the original tapes before Froese added the new '80s synth stuff to them.
The light pops during the first 1-2 minutes on the title track of the Jive/Electro caused me to suspect it was a needle drop. After that I don't believe there are any. I'm hoping someone will have something definitive on this. In any case it's a nice disc, but the Relativity sounds better to me. A lot of "real" TD fan don't like those early 80's sounds that were mixed into Green Desert. But they are what I like about this album, it's like the early and middle years TD come together. I really like the result. It's my second favorite TD album, after Flashpoint. As I recall the "real" fans don't like that Album too much either Rick
Did not know that. It would have saved me some $ buying it from there, rather than the UK, a few years back. Rick
I only added that after the compare. That would be very interesting. Hopefully it'll be available one day. Rick
Me too. I'm a 70s TD fan with little time for the 80s stuff. I've never liked Green Desert and only now do I realise why!
My first encounter with Green Desert was as part of the In the Beginning box on Relativity. But that was vinyl, and the individual CDs came out just a bit later, I think. The thing is, I have always suspected that the vinyl in this box was sourced from digital masters, precisely because a distorted passage I heard on one side of Green Desert sounded like digital clipping or error to me in the mastering. So it comes as a surprise to hear this talk about the first release on CD being a needle drop. But thanks for starting this thread because I've been looking for the best sounding CD pressing of this title. I would love to hear the original tape without the 80s synth overdubs and remix, but I'll take the available mix over nothing, since the compositions are pretty decent. Edgar's approach to these older recordings in recent years has always bothered me. It seems he has re-recorded many of the classic TD titles and the Froese solo records. Doesn't he have anything better to do? They aren't an improvement. I guess he can count on fools like me to buy everything he puts out. And considering how prolific TD and their ex-members members have been over the years, it's a lot of shelf space in my house.
I just listened to the first couple of minutes of the Jive/Electro again and the pops I hear may be some sort of "digi-noise"? On the Relativity I do not hear them. In any case you can't go wrong with either. Even the remaster is OK, but I'm very sensitive pain-wise to Digital Compression but those who are not will probably have no issues with it. Although with some searching the Relativity, my fav., can probably be obtained very cheaply. Rick P.S. If anyone is looking for the Jive/Electro Green Desert, I just dealt with a seller who has one at a very good price in stock, as of this morning. PM me if you want the contact info.
Not an idiot in my book I agree, there are certain songs (albums) that I too own multiple copies in order to achieve that 'perfect' sound. I know I've had LOTS of masterings of Yes' Machine Messiah in order for that 'sound.' Have you done any research into Green Desert on vinyl? As someone who got back into vinyl last year, it seams a mint vinyl pressing always rules supreme.
Hi, I'm not equipped to spin vinyl. It's something I'm seriously thinking of doing, just have figure some logistical issues first. On vinyl wasn't Green Desert only available as part of a boxed set?
I think that is correct, at least for the U.S. I have a copy of that box, and I don't remember it being made available separately, except on CD. My take on it is the vinyl pressing wasn't very good, so I don't think you're missing anything if you just have it on CD.
That's my understanding as well. I've never seen it on vinyl except for the box set, although GEMM currently has a listing for a UK vinyl copy on Jive.
Actually, I ran into a Relativity LP of Green Desert just the other day. It contains the same artwork as their CD, so I suspect it was a reissue after the original box set release.
Hi, I a/b'd Le Parc last weekend. So for the 3 or 4 of you who even remotely care (and even less who want to hear my opinion) here are my findings: Pressing/Masterings compared: Jive/Electro 8.26135, West Germany for Europe, 1985 1st Pressing Relativity 88561-8043-2, US for US?, 1985 1st Pressing Castle CMA CD 578, 1996/2000 remaster This was not an easy comapre between the non-remastered originals. They both were different masterings according to EAC. Which did not suprise me as the Jive and Relativity Green Desert's were different as well. This being said they were pretty close and they both sounded very nice to me. The Relativity had a little more (or better) bottom end then the Jive. While top end on the Jive seemed to be a tad better than the Relativity. Other than that not much of a difference. The remaster was not bad for a modern mastering, however the compression was instantly apparent compared to the Jive or Relativity. It also had the most non-analogue sound of the 3, and possible some light NR. Overall I like the Relativity just a tad better, due it having a bit of bottom end punch. But I probably like the Jive a bit better on the first track Bois de Boulogne. Once again they are both really good and you can't go wrong with either one. As for the remaster, it's trade-in time. Regarding the title track Le Parc (LA Streethawk), the sound of this on all 3 CD's was not as good as the others. Maybe it was the recording? I've no idea, just my observation. Speaking of Streethawk, TD supposedly recorded something like 10 hours or so of music for the TV series and other than the theme, none of it, to my knowledge has been released. It would be great if one day Froese put out some of it. Rick P.S. In the future (near?) I will do an a/b of 3 Exit CD pressings.
This is surprising. I wonder why the non-remastered originals are different masterings, since they were released close to the same time? I have the U.S. relativity CD, which, IIRC came out a month or two after the LP release. I bought the CD because I surmised that the recording was digitally mixed (ADD) before equalization for vinyl. I was a little taken aback by the new sounds they were introducing for this album, but grew to love Le Parc after I realized that they legitimately wanted to explore more complex layered recording techniques with more musical "events' and structured composed elements in comparison with their earlier, more improvisational style. This made sense as they were now working with film scoring and perhaps trying to reach a wider audience as well. My favorite track right from the start was Central Park, which I thought was as exciting and dynamic as anything they'd done. By the way, pardon my ignorance, but what is the EAC ? You seem to have been able to get mastering information from this source. I'm intrigued.
Central Park great track! In my last post I referenced Bois de Boulogne as being a tad better on the Jive, this was a mistake, Central Park is the song I meant to refer to. Oops. EAC = exact audio copy. A search of this forum or google will yield a ton of results. It doesn't ID masterings, it logs peak levels, which is a good determiner, although as I understand it, not absolute. Rick
