Tavish Adagio, Parasound JC3+, JC3 Jr or something else in the $1.5K - $3K

So, with five turntables and sixteen carts I must be ready for the mask, like Hannibal Lector?

 

Pretty much. I am amazed at the speed you went. Seems just like yesterday you was asking advice to upgrade your entry level table. I don't remember what it was, maybe a U=Turn or Projuect?

 

I'm in audio since 1979, since I was 8. And then I emigrated to the US at 17, and for a long while had to contend with lo-fi, and then mid-fi, with a total absence of TT/vinyl, for obvious financial reasons. Then things got better, then it took me a few more years to stop procrastinating and finally get a TT. Then I got one... and the floodgates of Hell were opened.

As to the Pro-ject table - I still own it, heavily tweaked, still doing threads on it here. Will probably gather the resolve to sell it, soon - time to move on. Although, by nature - I don't like selling things, especially those that have served me faithfully. So I hold on to gear, while buying more gear, which is not a healthy habit. But hey - man's got to have at least one passion in life. Audio is still way cheaper than heroin (or wives).

 

If you ever decide to choose betwen heroin and a wife, the heroin would be way cheaper.

 

I've had two - I know...

 

Heads up - Tavish (Adagio) also offers the Jensen JT-347-AXT with 1:8 or 1:12 step up ratios.... granted for an additional $500.

Where do you think those stand in the pecking order?

 

Are you sure you've recovered?

So the gauge of audio-sanity is the number of TT's you have hooked up? No other gauges? LOL.

BTW, I have four if you include the TT in my woodshop. Guess I am completely bat **** then, that's twice the acceptable dosage!

 

No idea, but having adjustable loading to suit the needs of a particular cart - I'd certainly choose the 1:12. The mo' gain - the merrier. On a typical 0.3 mV LOMC cart, like, say, Denon DL-103, 1:10 will give you 3.0V after step-up, 1:12 - 3.6 mV. Into the MM stage's 44 dB gain, the 3.6 mV is healthier than 3.0 mV.
3.0 V will give you output of 475 mV from phono - not bad. But 3.6 mV will give 570 - much better. And the numbers here are not ridiculously huge, so we're not talking about bloating/overloading your sound. If you have a receiver/integrated with an input sensitivity of, say 500 mV, the 570 mV input from the phono will sound much better than the 475, which will be below the amp's IS.

 

Good stuff... appreciate all the good information so far in the thread.

 

This is 100% the plan as budgets allow. Phonostage is done until everything else gets an overhaul. TT is next, and a new cart will come with that. Depending on how that goes, maybe a couple of carts. Then amp - at which point I might explore separates for the pre and amp. And then I'll probably focus on a larger home with a dedicate listening/media room. Then maybe look at what it would take to jump everything to the next level - but that's years down the line.
But once the budget allows the 1200GR and Ultradeck are on the short list.

 

I don't know, they cost Tavish about $250 more for the pair according to the Jensen price list. If you want to read a little, the link below is for a review of one of my favorite phono preamps, the Conrad Johnson Premier 15, and then later addendum with the JT-347-AXT transformers added for what he thought was a huge step up in what he already had called a near perfect preamp ... Conrad Johnson Premier 15 with Jensen MC Transformers | 10 Audio

He did later sell this unit, nothing lasts forever, and everyone moves on I guess

 

Thanks Davey, much appreciated!

Very germane to the topic, and I am going to give it a close read, including the links at the bottom.... tomorrow though as I am heading off to bed now, I have a 4am wake up to go climb a mountain before work.... literally. Cheers.

 

Well within your price range would be a lovely Conrad Johnson PV-12 tube preamp (the model with the phono stage of course). If you just want to use it as a phono preamp use the tape out jacks.

 

You know what I would do so I'll abstain. Still breaking in my JC3 Jr. I am very impressed at the improvement in SQ going from the Lounge to this unit. Still only about 60 hours with the unit powered up. It's warming up and losing the initial brightness as expected. No hum here. The unit is dead quiet. I never noticed any noise from the lounge, but I notice how black the quiet passages are if that makes sense. It solved a problem that wasn't there, but in doing so improved the quality of the sound.

 

Still depends a lot on your line preamp and where you like to have the volume control, along with the amplifier sensitivity number you mention, and speaker sensitivity too. Your assumptions seem to be based on the unity gain VC position since you aren't adding any line preamp gain, which is fine, but there's a lot of maneuver room in there, and there is no universal unity gain volume control position specification. And cartridge output voltages are typically measured at what may have been intended at one time as a 0dB reference velocity, but that isn't universal either, some use 3.54 cm/sec, and others use 5 cm/sec. And that isn't the maximum voltage you get when playing a real life record, they can be cut much hotter, so you do need to factor in some amount of headroom too.

But anyway, not meant as a criticism at all, it's always nice to have a formula to try and match together all these disparate pieces of the puzzle, but also good to note that it isn't universal, there are still lots of variables and individual preferences.

 

That is why I specifically mentioned a receiver/integrated amp. That's what I have in the living room. In the bedroom I have a line preamp and a tube power amp, so it's less of an issue. However, especially in case where people run a low-power integrated, like a 8-15 WPC SET unit, having maximum available gain at your phono stage is a must, IMO. If you don't, you risk running out of juice on your amp before you can get the desired SPL.

 

I'll second this. My JC3 Jr. is the quietest preamp I've ever owned -- it somehow manages to be quieter than my F-117 Nighthawk. Much quieter than the Chinook it replaced.

 

One of the professional reviews I read stated it was the quietest phono preamp at any price point he had ever heard. That doesn't make it the best one out there but I do find comfort knowing that the preamp isn't adding any unwanted sounds to the chain.

It was something I didn't know about it until I heard it...or rather didn't hear it. Day 4 with this preamp and I'm loving it even more as it mellows out from the brightness. I would describe this as revealing.

 

Thanks Davey - I did read the links, and honestly (of course) they left me wanting more! After doing a Google search though on topics like Jensen AXT-44 vs 347, there wasn't much and the links you gave were among the tops. When I asked Scott Reynolds (Tavish Design proprietor) about the choice, his reply (actually replies) were so far:

"The JT-347AXT is a physically larger transformer that offers reduced harmonic distortion and phase shift below 50Hz or so, and reduced intermodulation across the audio band. It's measurably better. But few LP's have much music below 50Hz anyway. It's kind of a matter of how much more you are willing to spend to get that last bit of performance.

Both transformers will work fine with your cartridges, and I think you can expect excellent performance either way."

When he said "with your cartridges" I told him I was using LOMC in the 0.25mv to 0.4mv range.

That left me wanting more also, and I am going to have a conversation with him later for further thoughts.... as you can see his does say it is "measurably better" but my thoughts are by how much? Plus with my "mid-fi" set up, I am wondering if squeezing every last bit is really worth it anyway, and if I will even be able to hear a difference. If I had higher end components, then maybe.... then again, at that point I would probably be looking at the Herron or something even more expensive. I feel I am already at the cusp of quality level for my system. Your thoughts always welcomed.

I also asked him what the specs of the Adagio would look like with the 347 --- the specs on his site of course assume the standard 1:10 44's. Awaiting a reply on that.

Anyway - I think I mentioned this on another thread, but not here, I am on the waiting list for the Adagio but still weeks from my name coming up... Scott doesn't expect any down payment and said if you decide not to buy when it's ready, no sweat, there is someone else right behind you waiting for one. It's just him and his son building them from what I understand, so he can't keep up with demand.

 

Good, that answers your question on how long the company will last - them being as busy as they are, some day the son will just take over and keep building/servicing them. Maybe hire a few more people, too, to keep up with demand.

 

Frankly, that doesn't answer anything. How can you assume anything about the future - especially from someone you don't know... heck even from someone you do. Do you have a crystal ball?

There are no guarantees with anything --- if you extend your assumption out, then it implies that every business that has their son working at it will never close.

It is starting to sound like you are now trying to justify to yourself why your choice is the right one, and convince me that I have nothing to worry about because the business will never close....

Just trying to remain objective....

 

I'm not trying to do anything of the sort. Do what you feel like. I do, and don't need any advise to make my buying decisions. Any advise I may ask for is technical, to help understand certain specs and be able to compare them. But any decision I make is mine, and mine alone.

 

???? You typed it - be accountable for it. No need to turn on me and get emotional just because I called you on faulty logic.

I merely pointed out your assertion had some holes in it. Again, if you are going to type it, be accountable and accept someone might question your logic. That is what happens all the time on these boards.

If you want to disprove my point, fine, but I am not going to get personal about it.... cheers.

Your posts have been very valuable on this thread, thanks for that... sorry I did't let your point stand on the last post! I guess I didn't think you would take it so hard.

 

They have a 30 day trial period, send it back if you don't like at after this time. I have one, and like it very much and not returning it.

 

Yup, that is well understood.... no worries there.

Many products give you return guarantees these days - to me that makes it only minimally attractive - I STILL do my homework, STILL buy carefully, STILL even over-analyze to make the right choice the first time!!

I HATE being in a situation where I have to return things... I would rather not have to take that avenue. But it DOES happen, granted.... and having that option is sure nice when you THINK you made the right choice, then something unexpected happens and it does not play nice.

... that's why the luxury of having things local is always the best, but these days that is harder and harder to get.

EDIT -- not sure if you recall but I KNOW how much you like it, we exchanged PM's a few weeks back ---- ya know, right before I ordered mine!!!! Your past posts / threads on the board, and our exchange did have a factor - I just wish there were MORE user testimonials --- your ownership / responses are one of the few here on the Hoff for the Adagio.