Tavish Adagio, Parasound JC3+, JC3 Jr or something else in the $1.5K - $3K

One last question for morinix: Robert, can you share if your tube stage will be true tube or will it be hybrid?

 

I was looking at that one as well. When I called MD, they weren't really hot on it. They were hot on Sutherland. I'm glad I listened.

 

Great news about the LCR Tube!! Being in Phoenix, and needing to get a trip out to LA soon for many reasons, maybe I'll pencil in a trip to the LA Audio show this year... I will be ready for a vacation by then anyways!

Also, good to hear the Sterophile review gave such a landslide - well deserved. I did not realize that review existed until I hit the link in your post. Then again, since I already own two LCR's and a Copla so I wasn't shopping for one either.

My LCR's / Copla have logged many trouble free hours at this point --- even if I get one stage that is higher end, I would be hard pressed to sell my LCR's! I would find a spot for them, even if moving them around to another TT or passing them on to family members. The LCR's and Coplas are easily the best $300 I have ever spent in the audio hobby. Period. As I stated earlier in the thread, I am still really wondering how much better spending $1500 or so will be compared to the $300 Lounge... mine have been really good.

Thanks for replying, I know you are busy....

 

There it is, five pages in and first Herron reference!! (I think it is the first, other than the mention I gave in the original post).

The Herron is one phono preamp that always garners reverence among its owners. I don't think I have seen but one or two negative comments about the Herron, and I have read a LOT of threads on phono preamps. But it is also 2x the cost of the Adagio... so you pay the price for admission.

What I do like about the Herron is it has two inputs for both MM and MC tables (like the Adagio). But the toggle switch is on the back, whereas the Adagio is on the front. Another access nit about the Herron - although the Loading Plugs are touted to be better than dials for loading - again, the plugs are accessible through the BACK of the unit. Not sure about anyone else, but rear access is hassle for me the way I have my setup(s). Those with easily accessible front and rear racks aren't too concerned, but how many of us have that luxury?

For those that will use it with one table, one cartridge are already thinking “So what?” But for those wanting actively switch tables from MC to MM, or swap cartridges, re-load and go, getting to the back of the unit MIGHT be a pain depending on set up.

But it probably doesn’t matter – I have enough trouble convincing myself to pay up for a $3K JC3+, let alone a $3,700 Herron! It’s great I am absolutely certain, but just too rich for my blood.

I am sure the Herron makes up for any access inconveniences and higher price with drop dead sound (that's the reputation). This point is probably tough to argue.

I will be quite envious if you get one!

 

No I haven’t, my last sentence in that post says I have no idea how it sounds

 

I just picked up the Parasound JC3 Jr earlier today. I've only had time to spin a few discs, but so far I'll say it's definitely a worthwhile upgrade over the Lounge. I've been playing the same albums I played with the Lounge last night. What surprises me most about the Jr is the increase in detail and dimensionality, but I'd say it's at least a little better in every other aspect as well. Of course, all this will largely depend on the other pieces of the chain. I'm amazed at the sound I'm getting out of my M97xe/SAS cart, especially after my recent (but admittedly brief) listen to a $20K Koetsu.

So far I'm quite thrilled with the JC3 Jr. It's an honest, no BS upgrade - nothing like what I've experienced with cables and DACs.

 

Glad you like it!

I too didn't know a phono preamp upgrade could have such a huge positive impact on my sound until I reluctantly gave it a shot. I couldn't believe the difference! Complete night & day in every way imaginable. So happy I went for it. My ears have been delighted with the results ever since I sprung for my Lehmann Decade.

While the Lounge is good, I always felt it sounded soft and sponged away nuances. The P75 MK3 I had was grainy in the midrange with somewhat aggressive highs. The lows were powerful but with no detail or nuance, and slow. Also god easily overwhelmed with complex musical passages. The Decade thankfully addressed all of my concerns and then some! It's made listening to music a joyous occasion every time.

I'd love to compared many phono stages but residing where I am, I don't have the access I'd need to have trials with a bunch of them. Even at 3K, if I knew just how much better a phono stage like the JC3+ is compared to what I currently have, I'd be motivated to set aside what I need to get it. Due to taxes and conversion fees, I'd lose thousands auditioning a few of them. So I need to do tons of research and hope it all pans out.

The JC3+, Allnic, and Herron are very interesting to me. It's a disease, I tell you...

 

Luckily we have @mike catucci to do much of that for us.

 

Good problem to have and I'm glad business is good! I would be interested in a Tube LCR from you guys.

 

90% of audiophilia is half mental. Good god that is an awesome quote and an alphabet soup of algebra.

 

Indeed, but I am running out of money and excuses. My wife is starting to ask questions about all the boxes that are going in and out and the ungodly amounts of shipping tape I've gone through!

 

If she starts getting on your case, just reassure her by telling her the boxes just contain drugs you're redistributing.

She might think it's not as bad as what the truth is.

 

A Yogi-ism is applied!! But so appropriate, yes, you can apply this quote to near anything.

@Helom - congrats on the new JC3 Jr. I think that is three or four VERY happy owners on this thread! Are you using it for MM and MC both? I keep asking as I am most curious about LOMC performance for carts in the 0.3mv range, or less.

@Strat-Mangler, @Bananas&blow, @mike catucci (and Helom) - yes, yes, OK now I am sold that spending 5x more is going to improve the SQ by a noticeable amount!! (gawd, I hope so!) All of you have told me more than once!! I am believer, just need to hear it with my own ears on my own system! I ordered my Adagio around March 21st, so it could be another 6-8 weeks... I am toying with the idea of trying something else in the meantime. I mean, I DO have four TT's running anyway.

If you find the cure, will you feel better?

 

There's no direct correlation. As I said before, the Chinook is more expensive than the Decade but I ended up preferring the latter. Still, when one enters a different price category altogether, there are usually more chances than not that an improvement in sound should be heard.

Worst-case scenario, you wouldn't have a problem selling your unit here for all of those who would want to skip the wait so have no fear.

 

Well there are a few potentials on Audiogon right now. The Whest had my eye but I'm concerned about support overseas -especially with a used unit. And then there is that JC3 for 1495.00 Had I not found the Jr at the reduced price I would have grabbed that JC3. There is also a Rogue Ares that was just reduced another 200.00 and lastly the Sutherland Insight is a really nice stage at 1499, but this guy wants 999 which makes it a killer deal. Otherwise Music Direct has a ridiculous price on the Icon Audio PS3 but there is very little in terms of research on it but what little there is is great.

So which one you going to get?

 

That JC3 has been on Audiogon forever --- not really interested in used anyway, nor the first gen JC3. I like having the option of support if needed, 30 day return windows for issues, etc. This stuff is WAY too expensive (for me anyway YMMV) for me to take risks.... if I did buy used it would be on Ebay at least due to the strong Buyer Protection, etc.

If I were to buy something other than the Adagio (or in addition to), that is the $64,000 question - it took a long time for me to decide on the Adagio. I would really have to give that more thought. It is really a tough market when you have > $1000 to spend on a phono stage!!!

 

There never is... no matter what hobby, spending more doesn't always mean a linear relationship to additional quality. Yup.

Yeah, but if I were to sell it, it would be because I wasn't happy --- then if that was the case I would return it in the window!! The benefit of buying new. Plus, you guys would want it for 50 cents on the dollar being the cheap bast****ds you are! (although I resemble that remark)

 

Wow, that open box Icon Audio PS3 MkII for $2495 would probably shame most of the stages being talked about in this thread. Beautiful design, no feedback, tube rectification and regulation of the power along with chokes, custom input transformers on the MC side, we were just talking about it in another thread recently, I'd love to hear it. Of course as usual with UK audio products here in the US, that demo price really just gets it down to the retail price in the UK, minus VAT. But would still be fun to try if looking for a "new" unit. In the used market, that much money goes a long way, and there are some time-tested classics that can sometimes be found.

 

Gotta go run a four hour phone meeting... check in later....

 

The user reviews for the Rogue Ares are split. It's a love-it-or-hate-it unit, it seems. Our own @Drew769 stated the Adagio killed the Ares.

As for the PS3, $2500 is a lot of money but since it's from a dealer with a generous return policy, if I were in the US and contemplating buying a Chinook, for instance, which sells for about the same amount of money, I'd order both units and return whichever one lost the competition.

The only big problem I have with tubed gear is that the stock tubes are almost always not going to represent the gear in the best of lights. Upgrading to NOS quality tubes with a solid reputation for musical reproduction will almost always bring the enjoyment a level or two higher than what would be possible with current production tubes.

My own review of the Chinook contained a disclaimer stating it came with upgraded Amperex Bugle Boy tubes. If I had my way, I would have liked to tube roll a dozen different types and then review the very best possible version of the Chinook I could listen to. But since I did not have access to tubes such as the revered Amperex 7308 Orange Globe, I had to settle for the configuration I got it in. Would have been nice to get the stock tubes as well for comparison's sake.

 

I'm using it with my Shure 97xe/SAS MM combo. I was a bit concerned the cart would be bottleneck and I wouldn't notice much improvement. Instead it showed me just what a phenomenonal value that cart really is.

 

But just imagine what kind of impact upgrading to a higher-end will do!

 

$

 

After recently hearing a rig using a $20K Koetsu cartidge, I'm beginning to think that might require an outlay I can't afford.

 

I'm more of a bang-for-the-buck type. Can't imaging spending half of that on a cart. Price-wise, my 20X2L is looking like a sweet deal.