technically speaking, what is 'fake' stereo? (Duophonic, Electronically Re-processed, etc.)*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by daveman, Dec 21, 2003.

  1. billygtexas

    billygtexas Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kilgore Texas, USA
    Correct, the single version was on "Summer Days (And Summer Nights!)".

    Endless Summer also had the album version (from "Little Deuce Coupe") of "Be True To Your School". It wasn't until the 80's when I heard the single version on a oldies radio show. I never cared for the album version, but wow, I dug the marching band arrangement. BTW I've never found the single BTTYS in duophonic anywhere (Good!).
     
  2. billygtexas

    billygtexas Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kilgore Texas, USA
    Yep, and they were mastered lousy. I can envision a couple of old engineers or someone like Dave Dexter Jr sitting at the console playing with the EQ or delay and laughing at how much they can screw up these rock bands.

    Thumbs down to Decca (The Who "My Generation"), Reprise (Kinks), London-Parrot (Stones, Zombies, Nashville Teens) and Imperial (Billy J. Kramer, Hollies) for releasing all fake stereo albums of British invasion artists as STEREO.

    BTW Didn't MCA have some kind of lawsuit in the late 60's or early 70's about fake stereo albums that forced them to slap big "SIMULATED STEREO" stickers on them?
     
  3. bluemooze

    bluemooze Forum Resident

    Location:
    Frenchtown NJ USA
    No. :)
     
    Daily Nightly likes this.
  4. CoryS

    CoryS Forum Resident

    “Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.”

    Edmund Burke
     
    crispi likes this.
  5. bluemooze

    bluemooze Forum Resident

    Location:
    Frenchtown NJ USA
    "Capitol was not alone in this practice. All record companies did it, including George Martin’s Parlophone label. The stereo version of the Please Please Me LP has simulated stereo mixes of Love Me Do and P.S. I Love You."

    Above is by Bruce Spizer from http://www.beatlesnews.com/news/the...capitol-box-set-misunderstood-by-critics.html

    Unfortunately I don't have a Parlophone Please Please Me; is what he says true? I've never of this before. Thanks :)
     
  6. Lucidae

    Lucidae Forum Resident

    Location:
    Australia
    Maybe a bit off-topic, but recently I've been reading about HAECO-CSG. This is what the Wikipedia page says about it:
    Is this info accurate? I find it hard to believe so many albums were affected by the process, since I only know of a handful confirmed cases.
     
  7. empirelvr

    empirelvr Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia, USA
    Unforunately, yes, it is. :(

    Even mono *singles* from A&M and the WEA family were subjected to the process, for some strange reason.

    If you think about it though, 10% of all the albums released in the early 1970's isn't -too- bad a percentage if you consider what big business records were back then with dozens of releases (if not more) being issued weekly by myriads of labels. (IMO)
     
  8. Helmut

    Helmut Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Germany
    Basically most electronic stereo is a nightmare. But I must admit, there is one german Kinks sampler from the early 70s compiling the era from "You really got me" till "Dead end street". And that is also rechanneled, but somehow works very nicely. It sounds "bigger" than mono and nowhere near as muddy as several Beach Boys albums.
    For those interested it's "Hit collection - The Kinks" PYE 86 486 XBT
     
  9. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    Yes it's true, though to be fair, stereo mixes of those two songs were impossible as they had only been recorded in mono. By contrast, Capitol issued fake stereo versions of songs that had available true stereo mixes, or for which stereo mixes could have been made if only Capitol had requested them.
     
    bluemooze likes this.
  10. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    This one too, right?

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Larry Geller

    Larry Geller Surround sound lunatic

    Location:
    Bayside, NY
    Wrong.
     
  12. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    I had an old copy of this (one of the many re-pressings, not an original) that I gave away many years ago because it sounded so bad. I thought it was fake stereo.
     
  13. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    Yes, the stereo version of that LP used the same EMI fake stereo mixes for LMD and PSILY as the UK album. EMI's fake stereo was fairly benign, being simply a bass frequencies on the left, treble on the right variety, which just about produced the original mono when folded down - something that Capitol's Duophonic process did not. Capitol also used these two EMI fake stereos on their 'Early Beatles' LP in 1965.
     
  14. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    Thanks for the info. I still have my Early Beatles LP -- it sounded a lot better than the VeeJay.
     
  15. empirelvr

    empirelvr Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia, USA
    Your VeeJay wasn't genuine, which was the problem. The counterfeits that overran record stores for decades were terribly mastered and neither true mono nor fake stereo. They kind of sat in-between the two, sound wise. (I suspect a lousy third or fourth generation 2 track dub of a mono source was to blame.)

    Actual, non-counterfeit VeeJay pressings of the LP sound fantastic, arguably better than the Capitol versions of the same material. And the real stereo versions of the VeeJay LP are true stereo. (Aside from the LMD and PSILY cuts, as being discussed.)

    EDIT: I'm kind of surprised that no one, in the entire time that LP was counterfeited and rack-jobbed all over creation, ever remastered it using better sources just on principle. Granted, the individuals behind the whole thing had only $$$ on their brain, but still, it would have been so easy to have done. Heh, that would actually be a new one...audiophile counterfeiters. LOL
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2014
    majorlance, slane and HominyRhodes like this.
  16. Michael P

    Michael P Forum Resident

    Location:
    Parma, Ohio
    If the VeeJay used the same masters as Capitol, why does the Capitol sound better? Perhaps your VeeJay is one of the pirated/bootlegs of that album that are out there. There wee probably more pirated copies than genuine. If you have a genuine stereo VeeJay there are true stereo tracks on it (with only LMD and PSILY in fake stereo), while the Pirated copies were 100% fake stereo.
     
  17. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    I'm sure it was a knock-off, but the department stores had hundreds of copies of the LP back in the '70s.

    IIRC, I paid something like $1.99 for it, and only because it had Misery and There's A Place, which weren't on the Capitol LPs.

    The remastered CDs of the material sound a little better. <s>
     
  18. Michael P

    Michael P Forum Resident

    Location:
    Parma, Ohio
    It's because the pirates had no principles!
     
  19. Spaghettiows

    Spaghettiows Forum Resident

    Location:
    Silver Creek, NY
    I said household stereos, not mono record players. But if it's that egregious of an error on my part, please explain why my statement was wrong. :)
     
  20. Larry Geller

    Larry Geller Surround sound lunatic

    Location:
    Bayside, NY
    Your statement was all too correct, unfortunately.
     
  21. bluemooze

    bluemooze Forum Resident

    Location:
    Frenchtown NJ USA
    If by "console" you mean this, then I disagree with you.......
    [​IMG]

    but if you are calling this a console then I agree with you. :)
    [​IMG]

    This is based on my growing up in that era. Other's experiences may be different I suppose.
     
  22. Mister Charlie

    Mister Charlie "Music Is The Doctor Of My Soul " - Doobie Bros.

    Location:
    Aromas, CA
    BOTH of those were used extensively in the 60s, the first picture is a true console, the second just a box phonograph.
     
  23. JamieC

    JamieC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Detroit Mi USA
    Mom and Dad kept the big one in the living room or den, the portable was usually in your room. My mom and Dad had two Magnavox floor consoles in the sixties and seventies. Great bass but they were essentially furniture. I had to use Pledge on them.

    Edit: I destroyed the auto return to play a Pocket Disc of Ballad Of John And Yoko. I never told Dad I broke it. Dad then bought the bigger Magnavox. The last album I played on THAT one was LZ II. Then I was forbidden(You got your own GD record player!).
     
    majorlance and bluemooze like this.
  24. JP Christian

    JP Christian Forum Resident

    I have one example where the 'fake stereo' versions win over the (patchy) true Stereo versions:

    The Shangri-Las.

    My first experience of them was an early 70s (re-issue?) of 'Golden Hits Of The Shangri-Las'. Despite being fake stereo it really packed a punch. It was on the Philips label and had a striking white cover of three of the girls in colourful clothes. I think it must have co-incided with Leader Of The Pack getting back into the charts (at a higher position than first time around) in 1972.

    I remember hearing the shangri-las in stereo, intially on a re-issue single and it was in true stereo but awful - 'Remember walkin' in the sand' sounded like a rough demo, no sound effects and no charm of the mono original or even the 70s fake stereo version. On the flip was a poorly mixed (vocals buried) stereo version of Leader Of The Pack - with a stupid edit which cut out the first line of the second verse.

    I recently picked up a dutch re-issue of 'Golden Hits' and it was in true stereo - not sure if this album was originally released that way but again, the true stereo versions of the tracks were abysmal - Out in The Streets was an outright travesty compared to the mono or 70s stereo.

    I've since purchased several variations of CDs and LPs and the only true stereo version of their work which sounds half-decent is Train From Kansas City, which incidentally misses the train whistle intro on the mono/fake stereo version - so I still prefer the mono.

    Several mono singles later can conclude that the Shangri-Las do sound best in mono, but this fake stereo re-issue from the early 70s is a great sounding record considering it't fake stereo - and I have summed it to Mono and it sounds absolutely fine - no problems. It's certainly much preferable to the terrible true stereo versions out there.

    The Shangri-Las is one back catalogue that's crying out for a decent remastering project - I wonder if multis still exist and they could do 'decent' stereo mixes that aren't the horror show and mess that the existing true stereo mixes are...
     
    bluemooze likes this.
  25. Gordon Johnson

    Gordon Johnson Forum Resident

    Location:
    Liverpool, South
    I have a handful of UK polydor SH pressings, all different one way or another
     

Share This Page