Technics 1200G or Linn Sondek LP12

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Airbus, Feb 16, 2018.

  1. 5-String

    5-String Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sunshine State
    I don't want to get into an argument with any of the people here that have a high esteem of the Linn Sondek LP12, I totally respect their opinion, but what Erocka2000 wrote just above are exactly my sentiments.

    The LP12 was and still is a very musical turntable that is a big part of audio history but it is not that relevant anymore and can not compete with modern designs from Clearaudio, VPI, Rega, Technics (the 1200G model), Transrotor, Kuzma just to name a few brands that I have personal experience with.

    For the record, an LP12/Ittok LVII with the Valhalla PSU was my first audiophile turntable and while it offered me many years of musical pleasure I can't say that I miss it much nowadays.
     
  2. H8SLKC

    H8SLKC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    As a non-Linn owner, I can say without hesitation that the Linn "universe" of Ikea-sounding names for so many bits and pieces, "upgrades" for seemingly every "upgrade" all seem as if from the mind of a car dealer. Offputting.
     
  3. JoeSmo

    JoeSmo SL1200 lover....

    Location:
    Maidstone
    Ok. By your metric we are looking at a £9k spend to get the Linn sounding like a SL1200G. No thanks.
     
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  4. chacha

    chacha Forum Resident

    Location:
    mill valley CA USA
    One side of the Linn mat usually sounds better than the other in case you didn’t know.
     
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  5. DaveyF

    DaveyF Forum Resident

    Location:
    La Jolla, Calif
    Actually, NO! The $9K spend gives you a table that womps on the SL1200G...by my metric....LOL.:shtiphat:
     
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  6. JoeSmo

    JoeSmo SL1200 lover....

    Location:
    Maidstone
    Lol.....each to his own, glad you’re loving your LP12
     
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  7. DaveyF

    DaveyF Forum Resident

    Location:
    La Jolla, Calif
    As you stated, that is your sentiment and opinion. Others would beg to differ.:rolleyes:
    Unfortunately, as I have said on many other forums, there are numerous people who remember the sound of their LP12 from yesteryear ( usually going back 10+ years) and they are convinced that the current deck sounds the same as they remember it. Nothing could be further from reality! So, the result is they come on forums and post like 5-string did. Pity that these folks cannot fathom that listening to the current LP12 Klimax and comparing it to their old LP12 with Valhalla/Ittok is like comparing chalk and cheese! Yes, the two decks were made in Scotland and are called the same thing..an LP12. But that's about where the similarity ends. Guys, go out there and see if you can hear a current ( not a model that is older than your teenager:shake:) model LP12 and then come back with your opinion. Otherwise, please think before hitting post.:doh:
     
    Randoms likes this.
  8. DaveyF

    DaveyF Forum Resident

    Location:
    La Jolla, Calif
    LOL,each to his own, glad you're loving your Technics...
     
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  9. Upstateaudio

    Upstateaudio Forum Resident

    Location:
    Niskayuna, NY
    Glad we are keeping this civil. If only politics were like that. LOL.
     
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  10. Erocka2000

    Erocka2000 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY, USA
    I already mentioned that I had a Linn LP12 with an Akurate Radikal, Ekos, and Khan top plate and I still stand by my opinion. Maybe if I would've spend $4,000 on a piece of machined aluminum (Keel) it would have magically transformed the sound. I'm highly doubtful on that one. And I have heard a Klimax level Linn at a dealer and still, it did not blow me away.
     
    valvehead likes this.
  11. DaveyF

    DaveyF Forum Resident

    Location:
    La Jolla, Calif
    Do tell us what table and system you have heard that did 'blow you away'...:righton:

    BTW, it's ll good, you like x...i like the LP12. We most likely listen to different types of music and for different aspects of the reproduction....that is common. Neither is right or wrong...it's just a preference. Something that IMHO, one is ALLOWED to have:edthumbs:. Even though there are numerous forums and members who TOTALLY disagree with my last sentence. Question is going to be whether or not this forum and its members feel the same way.:targettiphat:
     
    Newton John likes this.
  12. Wngnt90

    Wngnt90 Forum Resident

    Oops....my mistake. But if it was a SL-1200 mk2 my comment would be correct...:)
     
    4011021 likes this.
  13. keef285

    keef285 Forum Resident

    Location:
    U.K.
    I had a Rega RB300 on my Roksan Xerxes........which sounded great until the top plate dropped and Roksan expected ME to pay for their design flaw. I'm now quite happy with an LP12 and Ittok.
     
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  14. TarnishedEars

    TarnishedEars Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    I would never have even guessed that this might be true. I can't see or feel any differences between the 2 sides when I inspect my Linn's mat. So it's possible that since my mat is about 40 years old, that it may not be constructed the in the same way as are the modern Linn mats.
     
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  15. 5-String

    5-String Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sunshine State
    I am glad that you love your LP12!
     
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  16. Drewan77

    Drewan77 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK/USA
    DaveyF, I regularly listen to a friends latest & greatest LP12 (the anniversary model with Kandid) and agree that it is a truly excellent deck. However, the rest of his flagship Linn system is so let down by a very compromised domestic environment that I will never hear the LP12 at anywhere near its best whereas my own system is of somewhat lower value but in a dedicated & treated room.

    In that environment the SL1200G is much more enjoyable and pleasant to listen to. No doubt 'his' LP12 in 'my' room would be a thing of wonder...but we will never know, sadly.
     
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  17. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    I haven't heard the Project arm on a LP12, but a current Akito, which I believe is called the Akito 3, and introduced around 2010 is an excellent arm and far superior to the original Japanese built Akito, and the Linn produced Akito launched in December 1994, which in itself was a large upgrade on the original.

    People were buying Basik and Axis turntables simply for the arm, which was nowhere near as good as one you could buy from 1995, yet alone 2010.

    I do think you make a very interesting point regarding the Keel, and having three performance levels of subchassis is complicated and confusing. Without doing a lot of listening, I no longer have a clue about the Linn hierarchy regarding subchassis / arms. Obviously a Keel / Ekos SE is the best Linn combination, but in which order, and where the Kore fits into things....
     
  18. Erocka2000

    Erocka2000 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY, USA
    Let's see. I was blown away the first time I had my Well Tempered. I continue to be blown away by the Shindo Garrard 301 whenever I get a chance to hear it. And I've been pretty blown away with my Technics, both with the stock arm and now with my Jelco 850S.

    Yes, everyone can have a preference. But just out of curiosity, what other tables have you listened to recently?
     
  19. Dubmart

    Dubmart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    My Xerxes went the same way, but I missed the Roksan sound so much I ended up buying a used Xerxes 10 for my second system, ironically it's ended up sounding less Roksan like and closer to my Michell, not that there's anything wrong with that, but I do like the Roksan signature sound and for me back in the mid-eighties the Xerxes smoked any LP12 and I listened to every example of each that my local shop had pass through over a period of several months, that was then I spent too much time hanging out in hi fi shops.
     
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  20. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    The Ferrari/Fiat comparison didn't work for me.

    I don't believe all Linn-ites think it is necessarily a world beater, but a 30 year old well set up, undamaged LP12is an awful lot better than some here give it credit for.
    I used to own several LP12s, the last bought around 1995, and not one of them is as good as a current LP12.

    When I first saw the Keel, I thought it was a serious amount of money for just a subchassis, but from an engineering point of view a manufacturer if a third party LP12 subchassis, has commented that for the tolerances and quality of finish, the pricing is more than fair.

    Manufacturers who make alternative parts for any product, do not have to go through the rigourous testing and regulations that the original manufacturer has to. For example, someone can make a plinth for the LP12, which would be totally legal to sell and a customer to fit, but if it didn't meet the super tight Canadian safety regulations, Linn couldn't use the same plinth in a production turntable!

    Recently at work we had some machined from solid jigs made, with a pretty rough finish. The price to us as an internal customer shocked me - precision engineering is expensive.

    From a price / performance point of view, that is down to the individual. Is a £2,000 cartridge criminally overpriced in comparison to a £200 one?

    Not knowing the age, spec, and if your turntable was performing as intended, it is impossible to offer a valid opinion.

    30 years ago Rega Planar 3's, sometimes Dual 505-2s, yet alone LP12s cleary outperformed many turntables which are now being touted as Linn beaters, very strange!

    As previously mentioned, a correctly set up LP12 works absolutely fine in most locations with suspended floors.

    Anyway, whatever your poison, happy listening.
     
    JoeSmo likes this.
  21. chacha

    chacha Forum Resident

    Location:
    mill valley CA USA
    You should get a new mat if yours is 40 years old. They’re a bit thinner now and make the table sound better. You might want to listen to both sides of yours though and see if you notice a difference. You may or may not.
     
  22. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    They certainly do sound different - try it and see. Just like the drive belt inside / outside / upside down, it costs nothing to check you are getting the best possible performance.
     
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  23. classicrocker

    classicrocker Life is good!

    Location:
    Worcester, MA, USA
    Not completely true as it depends on what the alternative part is. If it is something like a power supply it must meet the US/ Canadian and other country specific safety standards and legally must have a third party Agency mark like UL or CSA so a third party accessory vendor would need to get Agency approval for sale in the U.S. and Canada. For something like a plinth you are correct in that Linn would have to make sure it met flammability requirements if plastic or similar material for use in their product but a third party vendor would not be subject to scrutiny to offer the part for sale.

    Long and short of it some third party accessories or parts will have mandatory Safety certification requirements while others are not regulated. Now enforcement is different than legal requirements so it is possible for a third party vendor, like a power supply Mfg., to import non approved power supplies in country and not get caught but legally they are required to have a third party Agency certification.
     
  24. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    Sadly the Roksan top board droop was common, but the Xerxes was, and is an excellent turntable. I first heard one when Touraj bought one to the shop I had a Saturday job at (and regularly visited during my college block release) fitted with a Ittok LVII.

    Many years later I worked at a Linn dealer that was also a Roksan stockist, and had a RB300 and Artemiz on dem. We endevoured to ensure all turntables performed at their optimum: it was just as easy to get a Roksan to perform subpar as it was LP12.
    Five turntable owners in the shop, four preferred the Linn and one the Roksan.

    The preference was always slightly different from dealer to dealer. We also had the opportunity to hear any other turntable on the market, and if we wanted a non Roksan or Linn turntable, we could have bought one at trade.

    At the time, which would have been around the time of the Linn Cirkus upgrade, the Xerxes and LP12 were our favourite turntables. The performance of the then current SL12** wasn't close.
     
  25. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    Can third party manufacturers supply after market plinths without metal corner reinforcements? Linn have had them for the last few years because of Canadian regulation, in case the glued joint comes apart and the Basik power supply falls out and the owners electrocute themselves.

    By the way, the stronger plinth introduced around a decade ago, also improves the sound.

    Can the Hercules internal power supply be sold legally in Canada? I honestly don't know, but a company such as Linn cannot now supply them as a standard part. The Valhalla, which they also built prototypes offering 33/45, does not pass current legislation.

    We are free to buy the internal Hercules in the UK.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2018

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