Technics 1200G or Linn Sondek LP12

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Airbus, Feb 16, 2018.

  1. Dubmart

    Dubmart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    I spoke to Touraj a few months back, I get the impression he's still hasn't fully acknowledged the nightmare so many of us went through with the sagging plinth, I did buy one of his Vertere phono stages though and it's excellent, as soon as I heard Pink Triangles I realised that the LP12 was somewhat overrated, not a bad deck, but definitely not the best, unfortunately everyone told me not to buy a Pink as they were so unreliable, then along came the Xerxes and my prayers were answered. I totally agree that the SL-1200/10 Mk 2s weren't even close to a properly set up LP12, I did some experimenting with the Technics in the mid-nineties and reached the conclusion it just couldn't handle decent carts which is why the one I still have has had an arm transplant. I haven't owned a LP12 for over 15 years, I used to occasionally pick them up to move on and have a good listen, I would love to hear the current top spec Linn, but I believe they now sound much more like the decks I like, but for a lot more money, if so it kind of betrays the owners who spent years buying what Linn were selling.
     
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  2. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    The Pink Triangle is a turntable I only heard on about a dozen occasions, and whilst obviously offering high quality sound, the ones I heard simply didn't involve me musically. The idea of a battery power supply, is a very sound one.

    Apart from the sagging top board, the biggest issue I personally had with the Roksan, was ordering spare removable spindles for customers who had put them down safely, only to knock them into that famous black hole!

    With a lively child, I no longer play my vinyl, but will listen to the Technics sometime soon for personal interest.
     
  3. classicrocker

    classicrocker Life is good!

    Location:
    Worcester, MA, USA
    Just to let you know where I am coming from, I am the Safety Manager at an audio company that has to meet the same audio video safety standard, UL/CSA 60065, that the Linn turntable would have to be certified to by the Canadian Safety Agency CSA. Linn would not have had to add the metal corners unless the TT had failed the mechanical tests mandated in the above safety standard or they had a field incident where the glued joint failed exposing the consumer to a potential shock hazard.

    I am not familiar with the Hercules power supply but if it is an open frame design, without a protective enclosure and is meant to be installed inside the product, there could be multiple reasons why Linn cannot or has decided not to offer it as an option for their TT.

    For Canada any mains connected ready to use out of the box by a consumer, like a wall wart power supply you charge your phone with, it is legally required to have a third party certification like CSA safety Agency mark to import into Canada. If it is a power supply for building in a product, like the Linn turntable, it can be investigated as part of the end product safety certification.

    For Linn to offer the Hercules power supply as an option they would need to get their TT re-certified and tested with that power supply which is not cheap and may be why they don't sell it as an option.
     
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  4. Dubmart

    Dubmart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    I never had a problem with the Roksan spindle until very recently when I forgot to remove it and it went flying off when I lifted the record, that was several minutes of stress until I found it hiding, a bit like Naim's CD pucks, it's an expensive essential that they really ought to supply a few of, lesson learned I won't do that again.
     
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  5. misterdecibel

    misterdecibel Bulbous Also Tapered

    I think the main reason Linn do not offer the Hercules power supply is because it is not a Linn product. They don't offer Rega TTPSU units either...
     
    Newton John likes this.
  6. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    I so very nearly added the Naim puck alongside the Roksan spindle!
     
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  7. TarnishedEars

    TarnishedEars Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Well the original Linn is a >40 years old design today. Don't you think that it seem be likely that they probably would have figured-out a number of ways to improve its performance during this timeframe?

    FWIW: Linn's product philosophy has always been that products which you have paid good money for should be upgradable if a customer choses rather than always having to be completely replaced each time a new revision is made. This seems like a reasonably customer-friendly as well as environmentally-friendly philosophy to me.

    Technics made a number of minor changes over the years to their original SL1200s, but in order to get the benefits of the latest revisions (if you cared to) you always had to buy an entirely new TT. You decide which philosophy is more to your liking.
     
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  8. DaveyF

    DaveyF Forum Resident

    Location:
    La Jolla, Calif
    +1
     
  9. DaveyF

    DaveyF Forum Resident

    Location:
    La Jolla, Calif
    Well I have had the good luck to have been able to listen to a lot of tables recently. The most impressive was the new Basis Transcendence...but I also heard the new Technics SL1000R, a Kronos Pro, the Bergmann Magne, TheEAT C Sharp, A Brinkmann Bardo, A TechDas AF1 and a Garrard 301 with a SME arm.
    I’m still in the Linn camp, if that tells you something.
     
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  10. Dubmart

    Dubmart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    To be fair a brand new Technics almost always cost less than any Linn upgrades and Technics parts were also dirt cheap, it's only with the GAE/G/GR that Technics have adopted a more Linn like pricing policy, not that the original Technics and Linn were in the same league.
     
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  11. Dubmart

    Dubmart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    It tells me that you have good local dealers:righton: and that you happen to like what Linn decks do, nothing wrong with that, it's just that a lot of us prefer what other decks do.
     
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  12. TarnishedEars

    TarnishedEars Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    I agree. I was merely demonstrating two entirely different (and relevant in the case of this thread) product upgrade philosophies.
     
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  13. JoeSmo

    JoeSmo SL1200 lover....

    Location:
    Maidstone
    Update: after extensive listening I’ve concluded the SL1200g rubber mat is better. Bass is cleaner, punchier and better defined, much easier to follow all the subtle nuances. If I have a really harsh sounding LP the cork/felt Mat tames it but there are only one or two in my collection.
     
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  14. Drewan77

    Drewan77 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK/USA
    And so it should be, the Technics engineers probably know best (but I do have a slight preference for an Achromat on mine :doh:)
     
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  15. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    Better arm on the good Linn. I have owned many technics tables, and while I love and admire them, I feel even the best arm they came up with is inferior to a decent high end arm. Technics were never high end, even the SL1200. It's a good solid arm, but once you handle a better one, you know what it's lacking. I see the SL1200G as the new BMW plaything of turntables. I like the revamp, but no way I'm paying $4k for one of those arms.
     
  16. Orrin Porter Rockwell

    Orrin Porter Rockwell Well-Known Member

    Location:
    xyzzy
    I would never claim to "possess super-hearing", but the audiologist reports that my hearing tests "well above average, especially for my age".

    However, the vast majority of working musicians whom I know personally can't hear worth a damn in normal conversation. So where do you fit in the equation?
     
  17. Davey

    Davey very clever with maracas

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    The EPA-100 is still held in high regard, and fetches some pretty high prices in good condition ... I almost bought one a few years ago, but to be honest I've never played with one, I'd still like to, though ...


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    But ignoring convenience and looks, and going for ultimate sound quality, I'd probably use a straight tonearm with a solidly integrated headshell, just my preference.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
  18. tzh21y

    tzh21y Forum Resident

    Location:
    Buffalo
    Getting back to the Ekos. Its not a bad arm. I think the Ittok is almost as good to be honest. When I was looking at upgrading turntables, I took my Benz cartridge and had it installed on a Linn Ekos. It sounded worse than on my VPI scout with the JMW 9. A lot worse. The overall sound of the Linn sounds similar to an SME, Fat. Some people like that sound. That was a 20k setup vs a 1600 dollar setup. Although the Benz may have not been the best cartridge for that table I mean, cmon man.The music played on the LP12 had what I would call a sameness, all records sounding similar in a way.

    Something with suspension turntables that I never cared for.

    I recently hear a SP10 MKII and I think its close to a 1200G. The 1200G is better in many ways, more accurate in a sense, but the SP10 MKII is killer no doubt and you can put on whatever arm you want with it and more than one. That is a concession with the 1200G. For 4K, its the best value in audio today getting very close to a reference sound. The 20K Linn is not reference quality either, neither is an sme 20. When I think of Reference tables, I think of the new sl1000R, the best table I have ever heard or a Basis work of art or better.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2018
  19. tzh21y

    tzh21y Forum Resident

    Location:
    Buffalo
    It is a fact that if a Linn LP12 is incorrectly set up, it will not sound good!
    If you want a plug and play option, the Linn is probably not for you. Unfortunately, the LP12 is very much like a race car, if you let it get out of tune or don’t have the ability (or know someone who does) to get it tuned up and working well, it will likely disappoint. The Technics is more plug and play...and IMO for those who don’t have the set up skills or the access to someone who does, probably a better option.

    LOL. I heard a "radicalized LP12" at a dealer and it does not wipe the floor with a 1200G lol. omg. maybe the other way around.
     
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  20. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    The only Ittok close (very close!) to an early Ekos is the Linn Ittok LVIII Mk 2, whuch is the one with the Ekos type headshell. Apart from that, in many years of demonstration, i've never known anyone who shared that opinion which I and many would say is simply wrong.

    [​IMG]
     
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  21. Drewan77

    Drewan77 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK/USA
    Agreed, I owned one for many years & learned those skills but at the end of the day, it bothered me that the thing would slowly 'drift' until I periodically corrected it.

    These days I prefer to set & forget & as I'm much older (maybe wiser), have realised that tweaking usually changes the sound - without necessarily improving.
     
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  22. tzh21y

    tzh21y Forum Resident

    Location:
    Buffalo
    thats is very similar looking to the one i heard. may be the same Ittok. I cannot remember but it could be.
     
  23. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    An earlier one looks very similar, but there are many changes.

    [​IMG]
     
  24. Sondek

    Sondek Forum Resident

    LP12, easily.

    Not only do I love the sound of the LP12, but it looks so much classier.
     
  25. tzh21y

    tzh21y Forum Resident

    Location:
    Buffalo
    the Sondek would not be a bad buy under 1500.00 if you did not have to tune it every time a cold front passes through. geez
     
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