Yes, the upgrade path can be brutal. Personally I demo'ed 4 tables when I purchased my LP12, anyway, here is how I went about it and my subjective opinion of each change. I had a budget of 5k +-, so after demo, using my amp, I preferred the stock majik sound vs the other three I listened to on the same system-one was the new P6 with the MC, the other was a vpi setup, don't remember the other. I went ahead and upgraded the chassis one step to the kore, and ordered with the trampoline spring. This was around 6k. I ran this system through the phono on a Cronus mag 2 to a pair of 1992 paradigm speakers. It was a hella fun setup, and it was about 99% perfect with about everything I threw at it. I quickly got tired of using a shim to adjust speed and was considering a used lingo upgrade. This setup for me honestly was better sounding and more fun than anything I previously had at the house. I bought records, even trashed my first stylus while brushing it after a few drinks. While waiting for someone else to leave in the used bin a lingo, I listened to the radikal, had the money, and got tired of waiting. Lower noise floor was drastic, the change in the bass was for the better. I crapped my pants a few times....and thought to myself, "why are people bitching about noisy vinyl and pops and clicks, this thing is dead quiet", wife and I were listening to Fleetwood Mac on Tidal via my simaudio...prob around 96K, she asked me if I had the lp and to put it on. She thought the lp to be significantly better, more natural, better bass, better highs, richer. I will also add I purchased an audio desk cleaner before the radikal, I got fed up with static and having to be on the stylus every side. A cleaning solution is something everyone must have. My one complaint, female voices, some jazz, just bloomed like hell with this carbon arm. It was only a few records...so arm upgrade to ekos se. Fixed. Was this absolutely necessary, no. I also did not care for the ultra lightweight mass of the arm. Week or so my friendly dealer called me with a used linn phono stage, previous owner upgraded to an AR tube pre....got a steal on that and am running it into a line on my CM2, much lower noise floor. Now don't have to turn the main amp on when I am on headphones at night. Anyway, at some point when I get bored I might upgrade the chassis again. I am very happy with it's sound. Yep, I am running it into a used 2K amp and a pair of speakers that are probably worth 150 bucks for the pair. I love it. New speakers (used) come this Thursday. Going to have to work for a few months before there is an amp upgrade...but I know the direction I am going. But, I will point out, that I probably would prefer my first build of the LP12 to the 1200G. Upgrades are available for both. Either you will enjoy. Your wants and wallet will dictate your route.
No I was referring to the generic statement DD / Belt drive. How ever I have used the same arm/cartridge on a Denon 755, Linn LP-12, VPI HW-19 on the same rack they all sound different.
Of Linn's 3 power supplies, the lingo and the radikal allow button switch on the top of the deck. Their lower end power supply found in the majik level requires a shim that comes with the deck fitted over the pulley. After Neil Young is done, I will snap a couple photos of the radikal setup.
Ok, bottom of the stack is the radikal power supply, on top of it is the phono pre (uphorik). There is one cable to power a motor on the deck that runs from this to the lp12. Sidenote:this is a radikal that uses the akurate enclosure, there is another where the phono pre is mounted in the deck and it pulls power from the radikal power supply (this is not that model). Another sidenote, I hate typing their names as autocorrect changes every single one of them. Top of the deck there is a button, in my setup red is 33.3, and green is 45. Pressing the button for like 3 seconds toggles. The lamp on the switch is brighter until the TT comes to speed. See red pointer. Off the platter and there is a small board with electronic eye that checks speed of platter by electron calculation via scribe mark on underside of platter. Speed adjustments are sent to motor underneath. Pretty simple process. The other radikal version (mentioned above) works with a specific cart only. Never heard that setup. But it also has a toggle button pressing that allows muting the cart, there is a switch on the rear of the radikal. FWIW, I am using the MM cart, it's a pretty cheap user replaceable stylus...the stylus runs about 300US. It's easy enough to install that tony danza could do it.
JNTEX, let's clean this up a little. The power supply is the Radikal...which can be obtained in two types of chassis. The one that we both own is the AKURATE version. There is also a KLIMAX version chassis, this is made from solid aluminum and features exactly the same circuitry. Then there is the Urika phono stage, which mounts under the sub-chassis of the table and is powered by the Radikal...either version. The current version of the Radikal is called the Radikal D...because it utilizes a slightly different power supply for the Radikal...the Dynamik. I think the external casing for the Radikal D is slightly different. Cannot tell from your photo, but looks like you may have the more current version. Then we have the just released Urika 11, this is a phono stage that mounts similarly to the Urika, but also transforms the analog signal to a digital signal! I have not heard the new Urika 11, but the Urika is not..at least IMO, that great an upgrade.
It's probably not really a fair comparison in the least. Either at my tables current level, or at what Davey is speaking about. Like Davey the Urika or urika 11 is not something I am really interested in. Regardless, the table I started with is a fair comparison, that table was under 6K to start. This is one thing that is interesting about linn, you can keep it around 5K and still have a decent setup that you will not outgrow for quite some time. Or move up to a different class of tables pretty quick.
That 5k starting price pretty much eliminates me. If I did have the money, I think I have a dealer about 3 hours away. At least they used to be. Doesnt matter though, I could only spend 5k on a turntable if I killed my wife. They probably wouldnt let me take my stereo to prison, so its pretty much a non starter for me.
The first part of that is decades old hearsay that has no bearing on the choice between the two turntables. The important fact is Linn operate in a competitive environment and stand or fall by the quality of their products. Their reputation/brand is built on that. If they failed to deliver such products or charged "an increasingly high premium" as you claim, potential customers would buy elsewhere.
Linn Products did manage to suck in the magazines. In the '80s, all the UK magazines were Linn fanboys. It convinced me to buy one, if I am being honest. But I loved the sound and I don't regret it - but it was, in some respects, a conspiracy. There were other great turntables around - like the stellar EMTs and the top Micro Seiki - but the magazines had a lot of pull and it was all Linn Sondek. It was an interesting period, and I look back on it with some regret. Hifi was important in those days; not so much now.
My recollection of that time was that Linn advocated listening to turntables and comparing before buying. Hardly the stuff of conspiracy.
You're confusing the present with the 80's. People were practically brainwashed by the magazines into buying Linn and Naim. This was mainly a UK market problem so didn't apply elsewhere.
The confusion is entirely yours. The original poster wants to compare two turntables now. Your view of what happened in 1980s is not helping with that.
I spent an awful lot of the eighties hanging out in hi fi shops, Linn used every trick they could to discourage shops stocking real competitors and create a non competitive environment, it wasn't a secret, I was friendly with people who worked in those shops and they'd discuss it, they also had a stranglehold on most of the UK magazines, again I read them, I still have many of them in my loft, some really did claim the LP12 was the best deck ever on a regular basis, which even thirty years ago was patently not true to anyone who listened to other decks, then there were the Linn indoctrination sessions, which I've mentioned on here before, but it's the closest I've seen hi fi come to a cult. I can't remember when it was, but at some stage Linn had a big reduction in the dealer network, I think the claim was to offer better service, but the reality, at least in some cases was the shops they got rid of refused to only push LP12s whilst the ones they kept couldn't offer real competition. With regard pricing I've also mentioned this before, but when the Michell Gyrodek was launched it was twice the price of the Linn and you could see why, the most basic Linn is now the same price as a much improved Gyro, the Roksan Xerxes launched at around the same price as the Linn and the current top spec Xerxes 20 is less than a third of the price of the top spec Linn, there's inflation, there's hi fi inflation and then there's Linn inflation. LP12s are decent decks, they used to suffer from a very particular sound which many people became convinced was how decks should sound, I believe that more modern Linns have to varying degrees abandoned the "Linn sound" in favour of a more mainstream approach, if the sound of a LP12 appeals then people should buy one and enjoy playing music, but nobody should buy one without considering and listening to the competition, hopefully in 2018 we all know better than that, some practices from the eighties shouldn't be copied.
I have both decks and my beloved Linn LP12 with Radikal has been trounced by my Technics SL1200g on the one area of vinyl reproduction which is most important to me, pitch. The Technics is quite simply astounding in this area. Is it a better turntable than the Linn though? Difficult to answer because this is a very subjective area for vinyl lovers. The Linns presentation is warmer, more mellifluous. The Technics is more accurate, ‘Technic’al if you like?!!....Lol If pitch perfection is not high on your features list then the LP12 in any of its current guises is wonderful but if accuracy and the resulting rock-solid soundstage is your thing then the Technics is a relative bargain compared to the LP12. I base the use of the word ‘bargain’ based on the fact that my LP12 with Radikal is twice the price of the Technics SL1200g.
I nominate @JoeSmo’s use of “mellifluous” for SHF Audiophile Adjective of the Week. I cannot recall any of the audio reviewers ever using the word in any magazine-based review over the years. Lots of reviews and lots of years, so I could be mistaken, but I think @JoeSmo has done it. Seriously though, I think the mellifluousity of the SL1200G depends in part on the choice of cartridge and phono preamp too. I’d offer that the choice of cartridge is the greatest determinant of mellifluousness, actually.
Get a vintage well set up Linn LP12 with Ittok arm for a good price and you’ll be happy and upgrade as you wish. I prefer the pre-Cirkus LP12. Having a solid floor or a wall mounted shelf is a must though. The Technics was designed for DJa rather than audiophiles.
The Linn LP12 has been an iconic turntable for decades, and it remains a wonderful if unusually expensive choice. Implying that the Technics SL1200G was designed for DJs is bizarrely uninformed and fundamentally wrong. There have been literally hundreds of knowledgeable articles, reviews and owner reports published about the new generation SL1200GR, G and GAE, not to mention Technics' own marketing material, yet you seem to have missed it all. That's unfortunate. That the original SL1200 was marketed at DJs, radio stations and audiophiles will never, ever detract from the tens upon tens of thousands of delighted users, the vast majority of whom were and are audiophiles. I'm not sure why some people feel the need to deride a perfectly great turntable by spitting out "DJ" every so often.
