The Beach Boys' 'Sunflower' Commercial and Artistic Flaw: No Mike Love Uptempo Rockers

Which Mike rockers are better than It's About Time or Slip on Through? Student Demonstration Time? There are superior Brian rockers that Mike sings on, of course, but songs originating from the Lovester - not in my book. And that includes Do It Again.

 

Composed by Wilson/Love:

 

Sunflower

In 2003, Sunflower was voted 380 in Rolling Stone's "The 500 Greatest Albums of All Time". In 1997, it was voted 66 in The Guardian's "100 Best Albums Ever".[2] The track "All I Wanna Do" has been retrospectively cited as one of the earliest manifestations of chillwave, a microgenre that developed in the 2000s.[3][4] --wiki

Dennis' "Slip On Though", "Got To Know The Woman" and "It's About Time" rock harder than any by the boys to date--and are some of their best. Who needs more "hard Rockers" from Mike when we have the best already? That is NOT why this failed to sell. It was on the cusp of the 70's singer/songwriter era (love it), and the early BeeGees disco craze...but we know they still had a lot to give (Surf's Up, Holland, Smiley Smile)...so much to love, even if most of the world had moved on.

I love Mike, believe me, an integral part of their beautiful harmonies...but nasal doesn't translate to hard rock, just because it's...nasal.

And "This Whole World" is doo-wop" rock at Beach Boys best. We got rock covered here.

 

Not really a hard rocker...still surf-rock to my ears, wonderful as it is.

 

If that song originated with Mike, well . . . you have a point. An exception to the rule?

 

Ram Raj!

 

I love the love for Love here.

He really doesn't deserve all the bad press he's gotten over the years. A smart guy, and an integral part of one of the greatest bands of all time (though the debate over Sunflower is a bit odd...a moot point). Saw them in 1983 at a small outdoor baseball stadium in Tempe, or was it Phoenix on the edge of Tempe. Just a couple thousand standing in the infield and outfield enjoying the good vibrations (interestingly, it was a "reverse" set up, with no stadium seating. The full Beach Boys lineup were in the stands on a stage under the shady awning--we were all on the field in the sun. Fortunately it wasn't a really hot Arizona day for the rocking crowd.

Sadly Dennis drowned just a few months later.

 

Hehe, I'm posting all in good humour. I don't really like 'Got To Know The Woman', but the other two are grade A material.

 

Absolutely! Yes, Dennis' compositions far surpassed anything Love attempted and his voice (before he lost it) sounded great and was more in line with the times than the grating nasal whine of the lovester.

 

I respectfully disagree with Rolling Stone - Sunflower is one of the greatest albums by one of the greatest bands in rock history and is way higher than 380 on any sensible greatest albums list. The Guardian is closer (why is it the Brits have such better musical tastes than us Americans?) but I would put it in my top 20 for sure. I'd have to sit down and think how many other albums top it, and it would be a short list.

 

It's interesting that the relative success of the Surf's Up album (29 on the US charts) probably had to do with a surge of favorable press for their revamped touring show (some credit to new manager Reilly is due) and the Rolling Stone about face in their two part story about Brian and Smile. Without those two things Surf's Up would likely have garnered the same fate as Sunflower.

 

For me, the Beach Boys' golden period was from Pet Sounds to Holland; I love every studio record from 1966 to '73...with the exception of Sunflower. I don't know if it's the heavy Bruce Johnston influence or the terrible cover layout with the sappy duds, but outside of Cool Cool Water that was tagged on there, I just can't get into it.

 

Do It Again was originated by Mike.

He'd gone surfing (allegedly) with an old high school friend and went straight to Brian afterward and said they need to write a song "like this" blah blah and they together wrote Do It Again and Brian considers it the best of their collaborations.

 

"This Whole World", what a great song. Changing musical keys every other measure and it works.
When the big nostalgia thing happened around 1973-76 as a young teenager it was amazing to watch.
My history teacher in high school was an amateur musician and he knew I was a half arsed musician myself from talking to my mom. I had detention one day where he was the one who watched me. Anyway the discussion got to Beach Boys and how "American Graffiti" , " Happy Days" and the upcoming Bicentennial got the masses into this media driven nostalgia craze. Then the impeachment of Pres Nixon seemed like the tipping point.
My history teacher got into a little physco babble and the American mindset and how, right before me, came what he called the death of the sixties and return to simpler times. I was devestated cause I loved the sixties and had for whatever reason an aversion to anything before 1964.
My teacher then got into the whole "Smile" disaster, The Beatles /Beach Boy musical ideas competition, Brian Wilsons implosion, drugs, equal rights, disgrace in Vietnam, and so much more I wish Id remember.
The talk got into the Beach Boys records from 1968- 73 and how the public had "had it" with them and their lack of "coolness" . He went on to say that the music buying public were so wrong when it came to the BBs. Then when the time was right for the reasons earlier the Beach Boys could due no wrong. Suddenly anything that hinted of 1950s music and attitudes were in vogue.
All this was happening before my eyes and it was to me insanely wonderful.
Around 1977 I was with friends and the talk got into Beatles, Beach Boys, Brian Wilson,Manson murders, Paul is dead, sybolism, LSD, Zen, Vietnam fiasco and so much more. What all this meant to me was having been a Beatles nut already that the Beach Boys was my next endeavor. The story got even more insanely driven as college was happening now.
Sunflower album was loaned to me, I taped it on my Kenwood 620 if memory serves and I played it everywhere and many peers liked it, except for "Student demonstration time" (never really understood that, maybe cause it was unoriginal) they said it was "trippy" . Ofcourse got all their albums from that time, not an easy thing to do.
Years later got more validation from aging hipsters and the stories became mythical. Those late 60s to early 70s time frame events were the best times for me even though most of the American public would rather forget them.
Those albums are an amazing gift considering how Americans had written them off then. I love the memories and smart diatribes that ensued because of that music and the comeback the Beach Boys had with the nostalgia craze soon after.
Going on and on again, Till I Die, Mr. McCarthy thankyou, John M.

 

Hmmmm, please explain how Got To Know The Woman surpasses All I Wanna Do or Big Sur in any way, be it for being "with" the times or any other way.

 

The subject this thread is about is the lack of Mike "rockers" on Sunflower having something to do with its lack of commercial success. So I was referring to Dennis's rockers on Sunflower. All I Wanna Do and Big Sur are not Mike Love rockers so are not in the discussion. And yes, Got to Know the Woman isn't one of Dennis' greatest moments but It's About Time and Slip on Through are, and I feel superior to any "Mike Love" rockers. Feel free to disagree.

 

I am gonna be honest. I never liked those ML car songs or anything that sounds like those.
So it's nice to me to have an album without those.

 

To be fair, I was replying to OSD’s comments, which proclaim that Dennis’ contributions on Sunflower far surpass anything Mike has EVER done. And I agree: Mike’s best moments don’t tend to be rockers. Unless we consider things like Fun Fun Fun and Good Vibrations to be rockers. Then we can debate

 

Dennis wrote GTKTW and IAT, and Forever and sang it exceptionally well. Brian wrote the music for AIWD and arranged it. The lovester wrote words and sang it. Dennis Wilson, unlike the lovester, had one of the most critically acclaimed solo albums released by a member of the group. The lovester's solo output is nothing short of abysmal. Moving ahead to Surf's Up, we have Mr. Nasality writing the lyrics to DGNTW and that's about it except for the embarrassing SDT which should not have been on the album. Dennis' Steamboat was an incredible track that he wrote and sang on. One of the reasons the album did anything was the contained involvement of your hero who was so over with by then.

 

No one is debating the merits of the amazing Pacific Ocean Blue.

Dennis wrote It's About Time along with Al and Bob Burchman, and yes, it's a great song. And you seem utterly determined to wipe Mike of any credit for these other songs. You can pretend that the words and vocals aren't important (when it suits your agenda) but you are mistaken. You may despise Mike but he's all over the finished products of the Brian and Mike co-writes in question. You can't just pick and choose. If the words and vocals don't mean jack, then the same applies to any other song. Therefore it must be ONLY the music/arrangement that makes God Only Knows so amazing, right? Not Carl's beautiful vocals or the fantastic lyrics? Come on man, even you probably know how poison your own hatred it. You can't take a song like In The Back Of My Mind and say that Dennis isn't a huge huge part of what makes the finished record so affecting. Therefore you can't make the same claim for something like All I Wanna Do or Big Sur (which Mike wrote his own, which you'll probably deny or say the song is horrible). I don't tbink you actually listen to The Beach Boys. I think you just read the album credits in a blind rage. Try and find some joy in all this music, man. It's not all about who you like/dislike WROTE what. Music is an audio experience made up of the sum of various parts. It's not just sheet music with a name at the top.

 

The Beach Boys were perceived as 'not hip anymore' at the time. A 'Mike Love rocking tune' would have exacerbated that perception. Mike is sooo good on All I Wanna Do, though. Sounds like a killer single to me. And I hear a lot of indie artists nowadays trying to replicate the sound of that song. It sounds lo-fi and futuristic at the same time. OK, gotta listen to that song right now.

 

Who needs rockers when you have pure pop genius like this:

 

No, I just happen to love The Beach Boys, unlike you.

And I can poke fun at Mike like anyone. Talk about SIP or Kokomo all you want, or his fashion nonsense, or his personal behavior, all fine and good, but a foot has to be put down when you attack his input when it comes to their greatest works.

 

If I'm remembering right, The Beach Boys were on the cover of Crawdaddy when Surf's Up was released. I remember some kind of headline like "25 Albums On..." or something like that...

 

Says the guy who’s practically famous for hating a person they’ve never met.

Hhmmm, and why can’t you just stick to the music? Or is shacking up with 13 year olds and stashing 16 year olds in your hotel room, as well as rampant cheating and beating your wives perfectly ok if you’re Dennis?

You dug yourself this one